Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - If ELP are counted among the "Big Six"...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

If ELP are counted among the "Big Six"...
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: If ELP are counted among the "Big Six"...
    Posted: July 21 2021 at 23:46
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Not to break totally off topic, but has anyone here got that nice big boxset ELP put out a couple years ago? Fanfare, it's called. It's got all the studio albums on cd, plus a triple live album recorded in Rome and Milan, and I think five other live shows from throughout their career. It seems the box is back in print, and I've been eying it for a while. Anyone care to comment on its quality?

the vinyl is superb quality , I've just pre-ordered another live box set coming out this year which is 10 discs.

Fanfare 1970-1997 is a must for fans but can be passed on by anyone less committed to the band I suggest. Bear in mind I have hoovered up all the re-issues and even tried to get the original Atlantic CD issues just for the sheer hell of it!
Back to Top
Earl of Mar View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 13 2020
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1214 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earl of Mar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2021 at 10:25
I was a teenager in the 70s and went through the myriad of rock influences that seemed to happen monthly in those days. Glam, hard rock, singer songwriters, American country rock, punk and of course Prog. My first exposure to the genre ( I am ignoring Zep,Bowie and the 60s bands) was CTTE ( I still own the original cassette a friend gave me along with the album I bought that weekend after i heard it). My second was ELPs debut album. I heard it in the summer of 76 after a girl at work lent it to me ( along with the 5 bridges suite).

It had a huge impact on me and as as another poster on here has stated, led me to explore a lot of classical works in the future.

ELP are not only one of the most successful 70s Prog bands but to me at least probably the most influential.


Edited by Earl of Mar - July 21 2021 at 10:26
Back to Top
progaardvark View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 52608 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2021 at 03:36
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... I never did any drugs until much later in 1972....


Being as young as I was, the only drug I was taking back then was ephemerol. It turned me into a Scanner. Might have been worse. I could have taken the one that turned me into a fax machine or an all-in-one printer.

The ultimate goal is to be a 3-D printer. Then you can print yourself. Other than the oil changes and a taste for lunar regolith, the hum of printers is one of the foundational sounds of the universe.
----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2062 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2021 at 01:24
Not to break totally off topic, but has anyone here got that nice big boxset ELP put out a couple years ago? Fanfare, it's called. It's got all the studio albums on cd, plus a triple live album recorded in Rome and Milan, and I think five other live shows from throughout their career. It seems the box is back in print, and I've been eying it for a while. Anyone care to comment on its quality?
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2062 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2021 at 01:22
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Genesis not in the same leage as Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull? Seriously? With the exception of Pink Floyd and Rush(who you didn't mention) Genesis have sold more albums than most of those bands(certainly all of the "prog" bands). If you are talking only in the 70's, at the time, they should still be mentioned alongside Yes, JT and ELP because they were almost as big as them or as big in England(Starting with SEBTP all Genesis albums charted in the top 10 in the UK). Plus they are one of the most influential prog bands of all time possibly even more influential than Yes. Also, being that many(my guess would be at least half) prog fans now aren't even old enough to have been into the genre in the seventies so what was going on back then at the time is largely irrelevan to what are perceived to be the important bands today (Genesis being a good example of that but also the popularity within the prog community of the well known "modern" bands as well as Gentle Giant, Camel, PFM, VDGG, etc). 

Big six is a term used retroactively by the prog community. It's not perfect but it goes mostly by influence and over all popularity within the prog community(imo). There's no denying who was popular initially but what matters is who continue to influence the current prog bands and it's usually the ones who have had the greatest impact as prog bands who do that. For better or worse, over all popularity is a factor in determining who makes that impact.

I think he may be suggesting that Genesis didn't push boundaries like the other bands. From a technical point of view I agree and they were actually shy of even being called 'prog' and associated themselves with bands like Roxy Music at the time. I think it irked Banks that they got dragged into the that stream , probably explaining some of his personal issues with Hackett who was more into prog than anyone else in the band!

If he didn't want to be lumped in with the Yes' and Pink Floyds of the world, he shouldn't have written such darn long songs! Tongue
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2021 at 00:39
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^Genesis not in the same leage as Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull? Seriously? With the exception of Pink Floyd and Rush(who you didn't mention) Genesis have sold more albums than most of those bands(certainly all of the "prog" bands). If you are talking only in the 70's, at the time, they should still be mentioned alongside Yes, JT and ELP because they were almost as big as them or as big in England(Starting with SEBTP all Genesis albums charted in the top 10 in the UK). Plus they are one of the most influential prog bands of all time possibly even more influential than Yes. Also, being that many(my guess would be at least half) prog fans now aren't even old enough to have been into the genre in the seventies so what was going on back then at the time is largely irrelevan to what are perceived to be the important bands today (Genesis being a good example of that but also the popularity within the prog community of the well known "modern" bands as well as Gentle Giant, Camel, PFM, VDGG, etc). 

Big six is a term used retroactively by the prog community. It's not perfect but it goes mostly by influence and over all popularity within the prog community(imo). There's no denying who was popular initially but what matters is who continue to influence the current prog bands and it's usually the ones who have had the greatest impact as prog bands who do that. For better or worse, over all popularity is a factor in determining who makes that impact.

I think he may be suggesting that Genesis didn't push boundaries like the other bands. From a technical point of view I agree and they were actually shy of even being called 'prog' and associated themselves with bands like Roxy Music at the time. I think it irked Banks that they got dragged into the that stream , probably explaining some of his personal issues with Hackett who was more into prog than anyone else in the band!
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13228 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 17:41
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

ELP, for me was the first "progressive" I got and it was way back in 1969...

The 'shrooms must've been very potent in 1969. Emerson didn't leave the Nice until March of 1970, and Lake didn't quit King Crimson until a month after that. They auditioned Palmer several weeks later.

Hi,

Thx ... I'll correct that!

BTW, even though your intentions are not exactly honorable, best to let you know that I never did any drugs until much later in 1972. You might ask about the drugs before assuming that kind of error. Makes mine look not so bad after all!

So...drugs aren't the excuse? It might be best to just pretend. 
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 37232 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 17:37
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... I never did any drugs until much later in 1972....


Being as young as I was, the only drug I was taking back then was ephemerol. It turned me into a Scanner. Might have been worse. I could have taken the one that turned me into a fax machine or an all-in-one printer.

Edited by Logan - July 19 2021 at 17:37
Back to Top
miamiscot View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 3625 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 14:11
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Album sales and concert box office both confirm ELP as being a worthy member of the Big 6.

PA's ratings usually suck anyway. I mean, Tales From Topographic Oceans isn't even in the Top 250.

No Neal Morse, Spock's Beard, The Tangent, The Flower Kings or Transatlantic in the Top 100.

I had a dream that they took all the jazz and metal albums off the site. And PA was the greatest website in history. And then I woke up to Miles Davis and Death in the Top 100.

Doesn't the top 100 list let you adjust it to feature only the subgenres you want to view?

also, big YES to The Tangent! 

Yes indeed they do. So you know I set the controls to the heart of the Prog and blast off - minus the jazz and the metal. Ironically, I love metal and jazz. My dad played with Stan Getz. But Prog it's not...
The Prog Corner
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18066 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 13:42
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

ELP, for me was the first "progressive" I got and it was way back in 1969...

The 'shrooms must've been very potent in 1969. Emerson didn't leave the Nice until March of 1970, and Lake didn't quit King Crimson until a month after that. They auditioned Palmer several weeks later.

Hi,

Thx ... I'll correct that!

BTW, even though your intentions are not exactly honorable, best to let you know that I never did any drugs until much later in 1972. You might ask about the drugs before assuming that kind of error. Makes mine look not so bad after all!


Edited by moshkito - July 19 2021 at 13:45
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2062 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 13:09
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Album sales and concert box office both confirm ELP as being a worthy member of the Big 6.

PA's ratings usually suck anyway. I mean, Tales From Topographic Oceans isn't even in the Top 250.

No Neal Morse, Spock's Beard, The Tangent, The Flower Kings or Transatlantic in the Top 100.

I had a dream that they took all the jazz and metal albums off the site. And PA was the greatest website in history. And then I woke up to Miles Davis and Death in the Top 100.

Doesn't the top 100 list let you adjust it to feature only the subgenres you want to view?

also, big YES to The Tangent! 
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
miamiscot View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2014
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 3625 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 09:07
Album sales and concert box office both confirm ELP as being a worthy member of the Big 6.

PA's ratings usually suck anyway. I mean, Tales From Topographic Oceans isn't even in the Top 250.

No Neal Morse, Spock's Beard, The Tangent, The Flower Kings or Transatlantic in the Top 100.

I had a dream that they took all the jazz and metal albums off the site. And PA was the greatest website in history. And then I woke up to Miles Davis and Death in the Top 100.
The Prog Corner
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2021 at 03:56
I never underestimate the mark that ELP left on the genre. They are simply one of the most important bands of the first wave of progressive rock. That is something that can’t be argued.
Do I love their music? Nope not really. I really dig Tarkus and a few tracks here and there..but I could never quite get into Emerson’s playing. He sounds clumsy to me…especially during the ‘battle sections’ that seem to inject themselves into every tune spanning over 5 minutes.
Again this is my preference. A buddy of mine simply adores ELP and almost throws a fit whenever I mention how I feel about them. Though to be honest…he usually asks me for my opinion beforehand
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
Progosopher View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6472 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2021 at 22:52
I rarely read through a whole discussion that has gone as long as this one has, but I have been curious as to how our community takes this issue. Many good points have been raised, and there is no single aspect of the band that turns some people off. The sheer diversity of their output is difficult for people who are used to clear categorization to grasp. ELP were a great enough band as to effectively be their own genre. More than any other of the Big 6, they had the temerity to be a rock 'n' roll band, the kid that would just let their hair down, so to speak, kick out a fun no-frills rock jam. They do not always fit into what we now think of as a progressive rock band, but in so many ways they were the quintessential progressive rock band. Ying Yang
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2062 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 21:58
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

ELP have become the main scapegoat for all the perceived excesses and faults of 1st Gen Prog down through the years. They were ruthlessly ambitious and unashamedly populist throughout their peak from '70 to '74 when such a mindset was considered grand heresy in Rock. They also represented the polar opposite of the rather more purist and earnest approach of say, Crimson, VDGG and Gentle Giant (music is substance maaan...) It seems odd that a trio who were entertainers first and artists a distant second could attract so much vitriol but they sold a sh*tload of records, were an easy target and their brand of Cecil B DeMille chutzpah never sat well with the hirsute and involuntary celibate adolescent. They epitomize everything that is gluttonously wonderful and crassly abhorrent about Prog and are my favourite Progressive Rock band of all time for that reason.

What's your favorite ELP album?


Brain Salad Surgery

Cool!
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
cstack3 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7412 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 13:53
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Having grown up in that era, I can attest that ELP were huge.  Unlike Genesis and King Crimson in the early 1970s, they had a number of singles on constant radio airplay.  

Emerson was one of the first to really push the envelope of the new Moog synth, and he did very creative things with it, whereas most keyboardists just used it in a fairly static way (Wakeman for one).  

Regarding guitar, Greg Lake was an amazing lead guitarist, but he rarely showed this side of his talent.  You can certainly hear this on "Karn Evil 9."  Lake was a contemporary guitar student along with Bob Fripp, so there is that influence. 

RIP Lake and Emerson.  
Thanks for that post, Chuck, very thought provoking! Did you happen to see ELP in concert?

Yes, I saw the BSS tour twice, it was quite the show!!  I'm a big fan of the first LP and Tarkus, but my interest lagged a bit until BSS.  That was hugely popular at the University of Illinois when I was there. 
I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15344 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 13:53
^ yeah, part of it these days is that there are WAAAAAY more choices and subgenera of prog to choose from. Not everybody likes it all like me. One thing is for sure and that is that NOBODY sounded like ELP. They were and remain unique. I used to not like them very much at all but the last time i went on a marathon and listened to the first four albums, i liked them a lot more than i remembered!

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Progishness View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 10 2020
Location: Planet Rhubarb
Status: Offline
Points: 2565 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 13:50
^Conversely as a teenager of the 70's I've never managed to get into VDGG, GG, or Gong - however much I've tried, and indeed I've given them all another shot in recent months. I guess I got too comfortable listening to Yes, Genesis, ELP, Focus, Curved Air, the Floyd etc etc back in the day.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15344 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 13:42
Originally posted by Numenoreon579 Numenoreon579 wrote:

I have been an ELP fan since 1977 and I think they typify what the phrase “prog rock” or “progressive rock” is. If you listen to all their albums (except In The Hot Seat), they produced something different on each recording. How many other bands has so many genres to their name— heavy metal ( listen to The Barbarian opening chords, Living Sin), Honky Tonk, humour ( the sheriff, Jeremy Bender, Benny The Bouncer), orchestral (where do I start!!!), innovative moog synthesisers, daggers stuck in a keyboard— need I go on. Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd— you new as soon as they were played who you were listening too. No chance of that where ELP were concerned. This was a 3 piece band and created more sound any other. I would have loved to see them in their pomp and don’t forget the big bands of the seventies would turn up at their concerts!!! They received so many accolades (Sounds music newspaper gave them 7 1st awards in various categories in 1973-74). Nuff said really ( although I could say lots more!!)


I'm sure they were great in their heyday. I totally would've been a bigger fan if i had been around in those days for sure. As someone who came into prog well after the fact, i find bands like Gentle Giant, Gnidrolog and Van der Graaf Generator to be much more interesting musically and lyrically and offer albums that grow even stronger after multiple listens. The first four ELP albums are definitely excellent. No doubt about that but for some of us who weren't around in those days, they just don't measure up to some of the under the radar bands that existed at the same time but didn't get any attention. They will always have a special place in prog history for sure. They were innovators of the symphonic prog sound in every way. It makes sense to me why they don't rank higher these days than the other big bands of the day.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13228 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2021 at 12:24
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

ELP, for me was the first "progressive" I got and it was way back in 1969...

The 'shrooms must've been very potent in 1969. Emerson didn't leave the Nice until March of 1970, and Lake didn't quit King Crimson until a month after that. They auditioned Palmer several weeks later.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.428 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.