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From Genesis To Revelation

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Jacob Schoolcraft View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: From Genesis To Revelation
    Posted: October 14 2024 at 17:24
I really like Mike Rutherford Smallcreep's Day. I play it around the house and friends say it sounds like Pop Music. Who cares? However it comes across...who knows? All I know is that I am addicted to that album. I like every song!

Mike Rutherford had said something negative about it but I can't recall what that was. It may have had something to do with him not getting what he desired from the project?? Nevertheless I think it's a masterpiece! It's such a great album! It reminds me of how Chris Squire pulled off Fish Out Of Water . I think of Smallcreep's Day as being perfect. It's so damn hard to do an album like that and getting it right. The vocals are outstanding and very unique sounding to me. The way the songs are structured.....I love it!! ❤️
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2024 at 21:26
Foxtrot has my favorite mellotron opening of all time in Watcher of the Skies [no disrespect to the original King Crimson album :p] and is my favorite Genesis album. I came to love Selling England by the Pound as well [except 'Battle of Epping Forest' ; I could never make out the vocals on that even after poring over lyrics].

I did give a chance once to Phil Collins' era Genesis when he was the lead singer but never revisited it much. I think I should listen to couple of solo albums from the band members; I haven't heard a single one from that repository.

I listened to Genesis: Live again and loved it [well, except for 'The Knife']. Good thing the band didn't prey to noodling and endless jamming on this unlike other bands [not that it is always a bad thing but it sometimes makes the song seem unfocussed and wavering]. I am listening to Tony Banks' most recent effort right now which is much more classical inspired, I guess.


Edited by kirk782 - October 13 2024 at 22:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2024 at 19:05
Genesis always had pop in its DNA but apparently King want it to be more straightforward pop.    I think Bee Gees made music that would not be out of place in Proto- Prog. For me Psych and Prog overlap so much, as does pop and rock, and Bee Gees were into Psych. As is common, it depends with Genesis and Bee Gees on the album, period and song.

Genesis - The Silent Sun





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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^Love this one:


That's terrific.

Quite an album from 1967 -- the pre-disco era often gets ignored, including at this site.
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Jacob Schoolcraft View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2024 at 13:10
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

Certain members of Genesis and Jonathan King have stated in the past that From Genesis To Revelation had similarities to the Bee Gees. Are there Genesis fans who agree with that I wonder?


And are there Bee Gees fans that agree with that? I'm into music by both.

I like early Bee Gees and it does have similarities with the Genesis album. They both do the psychedelic/ baroque pop/ pop-rock 60s thing.

Just to cover faves rather than highlight the most similarities: My favourite song off Genesis debut (1969), "The Serpent":



And this is Bee Gees' "Deeply, Deeply Me" off 1968's Horizontal.



There is an influence of Bee Gees but I never observed that until recently. Jonathan King had stated that if artists covered some of the songs from their first album that they could be hit records. I never gave it much thought but it's interesting to think that Genesis started that way...then went more in the direction of Prog...then by 1978 began writing more mainstream oriented music again with Follow You Follow Me... I was totally oblivious to that...but I believe Phil Collins once stated that originally they were trying to write more of a Pop style..which stopped but continued almost a decade later. Sorry to jabberbox everyone to death...but I was in the dark with all that and realize now that it's possibly a reality
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2024 at 12:18
^Love this one:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2024 at 11:43
Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

Certain members of Genesis and Jonathan King have stated in the past that From Genesis To Revelation had similarities to the Bee Gees. Are there Genesis fans who agree with that I wonder?


And are there Bee Gees fans that agree with that? I'm into music by both.

I like early Bee Gees and it does have similarities with the Genesis album. They both do the psychedelic/ baroque pop/ pop-rock 60s thing.

Just to cover faves rather than highlight the most similarities: My favourite song off Genesis debut (1969), "The Serpent":



And this is Bee Gees' "Deeply, Deeply Me" off 1968's Horizontal.



Edited by Logan - October 13 2024 at 12:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2024 at 11:19
Certain members of Genesis and Jonathan King have stated in the past that From Genesis To Revelation had similarities to the Bee Gees. Are there Genesis fans who agree with that I wonder?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2024 at 02:32
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The singles market was always strong in the UK, even in the 70's, often fueled by teenage girls who were into David Cassidy and The Bay City Rollers and the like. It didn't do any bands any harm though to have a hit single. I might not even be a prog fan if I hadn't seen and heard ELP performing Fanfare For The Common Man and getting to No2 in the UK singles chart. The last real commercially successful prog band was probably Radiohead and they had multiple hit singles in the 90's. After that the internet changed everything and all bets were off.

And I wouldn't have become a YES fan back in the 1980's if I hadn't heard Owner of a Lonely Heart played on the radio repeatedly. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2024 at 02:02
The singles market was always strong in the UK, even in the 70's, often fueled by teenage girls who were into David Cassidy and The Bay City Rollers and the like. It didn't do any bands any harm though to have a hit single. I might not even be a prog fan if I hadn't seen and heard ELP performing Fanfare For The Common Man and getting to No2 in the UK singles chart. The last real commercially sucessfull prog band was probably Radiohead and they had multiple hit singles in the 90's. After that the internet changed everything and all bets were off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2024 at 07:25
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Genesis is 1970-1980 then I'm pretty much out. FGTR (recorded in 1968) just misses the mark entirely when you look at how the British art rock scene was beginning to progress at that time. The likes of Procol and The Nice were already so far ahead its ridiculous. They needed more homework!

Jonathan King is partly to blame for the songs being shorter, also he meddled in arranging some songs. 

HI,

Hmm ... it didn't seem to bother Anthony Phillips much, I don't think as he ended up doing so much of all sizes, shapes and whatnot. But at the time, it was a SINGLE that helped bands get heard and also seen ... and in England, the BBC made sure for many years that the FM radio signal did not get the attention and power that it had in America (usually longer cuts than AM radio)  until it was raped! (Dave Cousins book has a massive history of it as he was trying to put together FM stations) ... so a producer at the time insisting on singles and small stuff is not surprising ... many bands did it ... Caravan's first album is a good example, Pink Floyd is a better example, and I kinda think that Syd leaving opened the way OUT OF SINGLES, though the record company still tried up until DSOTM, by which time I think they knew PF was not going to be about singles ... but heck ... later one song from The Wall brought in more money as a single ... even cut up and shortened!

My thoughts are that by 1972 and beyond, the market for "singles" had died down quite a bit, specially in America with FM being strong for the whole decade until it was raped. Beyond 1980, I don't know that I can name a band that depended on singles so much although England had a few of them that were always trying to get a single out ... I was thinking SLADE and other bands like it, likely their college circuit ... but I think that by 1985 ... it was all album, and when the Internet came around in the early 90's I think that singles got eaten up even more ... and record companies were not even trying to advertise anymore. 

The history of this stuff is kinda neat ... wish we could put it all together in a better, clear and concise way for PA ... something valuable for folks getting to know Progressive Music, which we can easily say had its roots in Classical Music ... despite folks thinking it was just chord changes and time changes and weird/farout vocals, which were much longer and made singles difficult to cut up.


Edited by moshkito - September 16 2024 at 12:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2024 at 10:24
Originally posted by Big Sky Big Sky wrote:

Richardh,

Add Mama and Driving the Last Spike, but you pretty much hit the highlights of Genesis from Abacab album moving forward to Calling All Stations.


Yeah, only none of the songs he listed are from Calling All Stations which was probably intentional. LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2024 at 10:22
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Genesis is 1970-1980 then I'm pretty much out. FGTR (recorded in 1968) just misses the mark entirely when you look at how the British art rock scene was beginning to progress at that time. The likes of Procol and The Nice were already so far ahead its ridiculous. They needed more homework!

True prog was barely a thing when Genesis recorded FGTR so I hope no one listens to it expecting to hear something that sounds like the later "prog" Genesis.  That just would not be possible at the time (Court wasn't even released yet and Fripp was still in GG&F). I actually like it a lot but I appreciate it more for what it is rather than what it isn't. 

Duke may have been the last Genesis album to have 50 percent more on it to be prog but they still had some good (and even proggy) moments after it imo. 

Enough for an album maybe?
 
Abacab
Keep It Dark
Dodo/Lurker
Home By The Sea (Part One and Part Two)
The Brazilian
Domino
Fading Lights

I thought they were still pushing on Abacab and Shapes but after that there is just a feeling of erm Stagnation Wink



I think you named most of the real proggy tracks there (post Duke). Don't forget that Domino was also in two parts. Wink Also, maybe Tonight, Tonight, Tonight and maybe Driving the Last Spike. The former has a nice instrumental middle section and the latter is just long. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Big Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 22:51
Richardh,

Add Mama and Driving the Last Spike, but you pretty much hit the highlights of Genesis from Abacab album moving forward to Calling All Stations.

Edited by Big Sky - September 10 2024 at 22:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 22:30
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Genesis is 1970-1980 then I'm pretty much out. FGTR (recorded in 1968) just misses the mark entirely when you look at how the British art rock scene was beginning to progress at that time. The likes of Procol and The Nice were already so far ahead its ridiculous. They needed more homework!

True prog was barely a thing when Genesis recorded FGTR so I hope no one listens to it expecting to hear something that sounds like the later "prog" Genesis.  That just would not be possible at the time (Court wasn't even released yet and Fripp was still in GG&F). I actually like it a lot but I appreciate it more for what it is rather than what it isn't. 

Duke may have been the last Genesis album to have 50 percent more on it to be prog but they still had some good (and even proggy) moments after it imo. 

Enough for an album maybe?
 
Abacab
Keep It Dark
Dodo/Lurker
Home By The Sea (Part One and Part Two)
The Brazilian
Domino
Fading Lights

I thought they were still pushing on Abacab and Shapes but after that there is just a feeling of erm Stagnation Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 20:25
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Genesis started off sounding like the Bee Gees on FGTR, whereas ELP ended up looking like the Bee Gees on Love Beach. Tongue

Yep. Pretty much. LOL


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 10 2024 at 20:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 14:08
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Genesis started off sounding like the Bee Gees on FGTR, whereas ELP ended up looking like the Bee Gees on Love Beach. Tongue


ELP were clearly more successful at looking like 'em than Genesis did sounding like 'em.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 11:38
^ Genesis started off sounding like the Bee Gees on FGTR, whereas ELP ended up looking like the Bee Gees on Love Beach. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 10:46
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Genesis is 1970-1980 then I'm pretty much out. FGTR (recorded in 1968) just misses the mark entirely when you look at how the British art rock scene was beginning to progress at that time. The likes of Procol and The Nice were already so far ahead its ridiculous. They needed more homework!

True prog was barely a thing when Genesis recorded FGTR so I hope no one listens to it expecting to hear something that sounds like the later "prog" Genesis.  That just would not be possible at the time (Court wasn't even released yet and Fripp was still in GG&F). I actually like it a lot but I appreciate it more for what it is rather than what it isn't. 

Duke may have been the last Genesis album to have 50 percent more on it to be prog but they still had some good (and even proggy) moments after it imo. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 10 2024 at 10:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2024 at 09:13
Genesis on Tiswas in 1981 where Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford achieved their ambition of appearing in Compost Corner with David Bellamy (Lenny Henry). Smile




Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 10 2024 at 09:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2024 at 02:17
I read that producer Jonathan King wanted Genesis to sound like the Bee Gees (his favourite band) on their first album, although that would've been a Tragedy for prog fans. Anyway, they came up with the Bee Gees pastiche, Silent Sun, just to placate Jonathan King. Smile

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