The most musically complex prog band(s)?

Gryphon were pretty complex too, by the way

Van der Graaf Generator are a lot more complex than people usually realize. Some passages on "Pawn Hearts" (for example the "Maelstrom" part of "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers") are about the most complex I have ever heard. A specialty of VdGG is to play a slow riff and a fast riff that appear in different parts of a song at the same time in another part of it. Examples: The End of "Man-Erg", the live version of "Pioneers over c" on "Vital", the end of "Scorched Earth".

Gentle Giant, Magma, Zappa, Crimson.

Based on my experience so far, Meshuggah are definitely the most complex RHYTHMICALLY. I feel they have explored rhythm further than anyone else I have heard, but rhythm is just one aspect of music. I'm not sure who stands out in terms of other types of complexity. This is partly because my knowledge of music theory is not fantastic. If there is someone who somehow blends the rhythmic complexity of Meshuggah with melodic and harmonic complexity, then WOW. Please inform me if you know!

One-Eyed Joker wrote: NEVER GIVE UP ON A BAND!  If you don't understand them at first, dont stop listening to it.  In due time, you will probably begin to enjoy it.  In my early prog days, i hated Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator, but now they're some of my favorite bands (im sure every proghead says that).  It makes me sad to think that i would have missed such incredible music if i had given up on it.

You either like something or you don't. I first heard GG, VdGG and Nektar years ago, and I'm not into them. There's no need to 'force' anything.

you rock.

BaldJean wrote: keiser willhelm wrote: meshuggah. i dont, and probably will never be able to understand how they play those ployrythms in those insane time sigs with such mindblowing ease. they are always dead on!! surely they much lose count or rhythm sometime durring a live show? and yet, they dont. their song/EP "I' is incredibly complex. And  big nod to Behold. . . The Arctopus. it is simply a matter of counting. when you study Indian percussion the first thing you learn is counting. in this video at about 2:05 and again at 6:13 Trilok Gurtu demonstrates the counting technique (though he keeps it simple there). the Indian school of rhythms, the so-called "tala tarangini" is very complex; the basics of it are explained on the cover of the Embryo album "Life with the Karnataka College of Percussion" (which has an incredibly low rating, probably because the only 2 people rating it so far did not understand it at all; I have to review it), the technique can be heard in great detail on that album; the Karnataka College of percussion demonstrates it in all its complexity

meshuggah. i dont, and probably will never be able to understand how they play those ployrythms in those insane time sigs with such mindblowing ease. they are always dead on!! surely they much lose count or rhythm sometime durring a live show? and yet, they dont. their song/EP "I' is incredibly complex.
And  big nod to Behold. . . The Arctopus.

NEVER GIVE UP ON A BAND!  If you don't understand them at first, dont stop listening to it.  In due time, you will probably begin to enjoy it.  In my early prog days, i hated Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator, but now they're some of my favorite bands (im sure every proghead says that).  It makes me sad to think that i would have missed such incredible music if i had given up on it.

Okay, so this probably isn't the thread to offer up Lawrence Welk, Boxcar Willie, Slim Whitman, or the Sex Pistols for consideration?

Sheesh!!! How elitist of us!!!

There are so many technically brilliant bands...
But by complex, does it have to mean "busy"?
Is this a question of notes per second, movements within a song, polyrhythms, changing keys or time signatures, non-western tuning systems....  All of the above?

Underlying shades and tones like maybe "Awaken" or "Turn of the Century" by Yes, or "The Accolade" by Symphony X seem very complex...
Dream Theater's "Dance of Eternity" is busy and complex.
Allan Holdsworth is always full of complex subtleties...
Some of David Sylvian's music is very subtly complex...
It's funny, I've been a pro musician for 30 years, and sometimes these questions leave me at a loss.
I just don't know how to answer them.
Plus, I'm sure there are a whole host of bands that I've never even heard (yet!) that might qualify in "the most complex" of prog music...

Allow me to just shut up now before I embarrass myself further...



Edited by Cylli Kat - March 05 2008 at 19:24