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What’s your biggest gripe with the top 100
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progmatic View Drop Down
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Harbour of Tears is fantastic as well.
PROGMATIC
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

In my world

The Snow Goose
Moonmadness
Mirage

...or as I call it The Snow Madness Mirage, which I have experienced in Sweden, blinded by the winter light on snow covered roads and swerving for vehicles that aren't there.


Here’s one you don’t often hear:

Moonmadness
Rajaz
Mirage
Snow Goose
Nod and a Wink
Debut
Nude

All excellent
The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

It's nothing more than a computer generated list. It shows albums that are generally universally loved, which also means that riskier or controversial albums are likely to be left out. Since experimentation and risk-taking are so important in the genre, this does mean that some important artists like Soft Machine or Captain Beefheart do get left out on the basis that they can be too experimental to resonate with many people (and there's nothing wrong with not enjoying these artists - prog isn't a competition to listen to the most experimental music). 

It would be cool if there were some way to take the standard deviation of all the ratings. I believe the higher the standard deviation, the more the ratings are spread out over the 1 to 5 ratings spectrum. Then it's conceivable we could have a list of the top 100 (or some other number) controversial albums. I think that would be an interesting list to explore.
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Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:


I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.



Black Sabbath has been on PA for more than 10 years, definitely. I think Bowie was one of the last ones added to PA, still quite a while ago.

Like I said, progressive metal, extreme/tech prog metal or post metal have few fans left around. In fact, if I want to find out about new prog metal releases and bands, PA is no longer the main resource for me.



Meh. What's done can't be undone. I guess we'd be much better off without ~5-6 subgenres featured in here. I agree that some Metal lists here scream "2009!!!" so it's better to look elsewhere.



No, this is not what I meant, the subgenres are fine.
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Kate Bush and David Bowie are two of the more eclectic inclusions on ProgArchives because neither of those artists are generally regarded as Progressive Rock, but I'm glad they're both here anyway. Smile
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:


I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.



Black Sabbath has been on PA for more than 10 years, definitely. I think Bowie was one of the last ones added to PA, still quite a while ago.

Like I said, progressive metal, extreme/tech prog metal or post metal have few fans left around. In fact, if I want to find out about new prog metal releases and bands, PA is no longer the main resource for me.



Meh. What's done can't be undone. I guess we'd be much better off without ~5-6 subgenres featured in here. I agree that some Metal lists here scream "2009!!!" so it's better to look elsewhere.
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Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:


I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.



Black Sabbath has been on PA for more than 10 years, definitely. I think Bowie was one of the last ones added to PA, still quite a while ago.

Like I said, progressive metal, extreme/tech prog metal or post metal have few fans left around. In fact, if I want to find out about new prog metal releases and bands, PA is no longer the main resource for me.


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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.


1. Perhaps. I don't remember the exact date when Prog Related filled with Bowies and Sabbaths, but I'm almost sure it wasn't that way ~15 years ago or so, when I started lurking here.

2. Wait, so you're telling me that hardly progressive Tool gets more votes than Cynic because it's less "metal" - even though three subgenres dedicated solely to Metal? (Tech/Extreme, Progressive, Experimental/Post)
It's like we had muscle cars fanclub (showing off classic Camaros, Chargers, Shelbys) and didn't appreciate a guy driving 2020 SRT Hellcat since it's "too extreme"... but in the same time accepted a hillbilly with 1994 Ford Ranger, which has nothing to do with muscle cars in the first place?!
That's terrible.




Edited by thief - February 20 2020 at 03:47
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^^ All I'm saying is I don't have any gripes with the PA Top 100 because they're the albums that PA members have voted for, even if they're not all Progressive Rock. Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.
I like Neo-Prog. Wink


you are not helping...
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.
I like Neo-Prog. Wink
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Originally posted by thief thief wrote:

I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.


Nothing's been added to prog related for years.
Tool is rated higher than those albums you mentioned because Tool appeals to non-metalheads. And in recent years, progressive metal has become the most disliked prog subgenre around here. Along with neo-prog.
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I'm perfectly happy to have Jazz-Rock/Fusion included on ProgArchives, otherwise we  wouldn't have Santana here. Smile
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The way I look at it, prog anything is going to attract picky personalities.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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I'm no different than half of the users here. Miles Davis shouldn't be on Progarchives. Perhaps including jazz-rock/fusion as a whole was a mistake, since the site doesn't differentiate between In a Silent Way, Kind of Blue and, say, You're Under Arrest. Maybe we should do without Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or even Romantic Warrior, with all due respect.

I won't argue other picks I deem "controversial" though. Not fond of metal albums inclusion (Opeth, Queensryche, Dream Theater etc.), of these I find TOOL the most perplexing... but I'm not dying on that hill Smile

(in what world Tool is ranked highly on progressive site while Symbolic, Black Future, Focus, Mental Vortex, Unquestionable Presence etc. don't come near?!)

My other gripe is ever-growing Prog Related collection. I know these are not featured in Top 100 - so I'm kinda offtopic here - but I say, any list with Hunky Dory and Master of Puppets trailing Black Sabbath is BS. Especially that poor Wishbone Ash, miles closer to Progressive Rock than any of the above, is thrown in the mix.

I think that's one area that Metalarchives figured out much better than Progarchives.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Here's a novel idea, only include artists on PA that have called themselves prog or progressive at some point or where those words appeared on an album sleeve or in an official press release,book,documentary etc.


it does not work like that.
If you dislike PA so much, why are you still here?
Your negativity has got old. I don't see the point of your constant complaining. Confused

Read the title of the thread "gripe",it was set-up for complaining, that is the whole point.
Then read the first sentence of the text "With respect for everyone's opinion"

And then just scroll on by and talk a walk in the trees.

Why are you still here, reading this thread, if you think everything is fine?

Your negativity and constant complaining is boring.


How am I being negative? LOL

I have never understood why some people are annoyed by the top 100. But then again, there's rating abuse because god forbid someone's beloved album does not make it to the top or is low rated by others (tastes, you know) or whatever these people are thinking, what do i know...

There are many albums I love that are not in the top 100, what should I do, throw a hissy fit? LOL

For a newbie to the world of prog, the top 100 gives a few ideas on what albums to start with.

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In my world

The Snow Goose
Moonmadness
Mirage

...or as I call it The Snow Madness Mirage, which I have experienced in Sweden, blinded by the winter light on snow covered roads and swerving for vehicles that aren't there.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I’ll add another. I love both these albums, but Moonmadness should be ranked higher than Mirage imo.


funny thing: Mirage is 4.39 and Moonmadness is 4.38 LOL
Maybe it was a mirage that the Mirage album was ranked higher than Moonmadness, or maybe someone had a touch of Lunar Sea and ranked Mirage higher. Anyway, I'm going to set the record straight soon by giving Moonmadness five stars and Mirage four stars. Smile


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - February 20 2020 at 02:42
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Here's a novel idea, only include artists on PA that have called themselves prog or progressive at some point or where those words appeared on an album sleeve or in an official press release,book,documentary etc.


it does not work like that.
If you dislike PA so much, why are you still here?
Your negativity has got old. I don't see the point of your constant complaining. Confused

Read the title of the thread "gripe",it was set-up for complaining, that is the whole point.
Then read the first sentence of the text "With respect for everyone's opinion"

And then just scroll on by and talk a walk in the trees.

Why are you still here, reading this thread, if you think everything is fine?

Your negativity and constant complaining is boring.
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I think if it's jazz, it's jazz. Metal is metal. They can have progressive tendencies, but I always view prog rock as a conscious effort. Even the "art rock" bands knew they were attempting something more. I don't buy the BS "We all just thought it was ALL rock and roll" (insert prog band leader here), so why does it sound different? Because you were progressing the sound.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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