Magma

Done research into it. Just reading CD booklets gives information about the mythology, but also from reading websites about the mythology (the albums tell a story and he draws on different mythologies and inspirations such as Egyptian mythology) and from the Kobaian-English dictionaries (prepared by fans, so I won't claim accuracy). Some of us spoke Kobaian here quite well at one time. I have forgotten most of it mostly as there is no one here, that I'm aware of, to use it with any longer -- mostly it was used to insult, confuse and threaten Dream Theater fans while praising Magma (all in good fun, I assure you). We were just asserting our geeky superiority in a very tongue-in-cheek manner. Magma iss de hundin, wurdah Dream Theater!

He chose Kobaian for the sound, and I won't say that it all means something, but many Kobaian words have meaning, such as theusz hamtaahk, which means Time of Hate.

This site goes into some of the story: http://www.furious.com/perfect/magma.html

And http://artist-shop.com/seventh/index.htm

And here's an old fan prepared dictionary: http://web.archive.org/web/20091021064935/http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-KOBAIAN-dictionary.html

Some of what I said in another thread on this topic is, my little interpretation and positing (from http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111673&PN=4 ):

For those that don't know, the bad times in Kobaian mythology is Theusz Hamtaahk, the Time of Hate. I've thought that the Kobaian mythology might be an extension of what might have happened in a parallel universe if Naziism had prevailed. Despite the darkness of Nazi like totalitarianism, eventually the human, or Kobaian I might say, spirit prevailed over the darkness and the dictatorship crumbled and so we get to the time of love. It's a fantasy based on humanity that draws on history. It's quite an Orwellian story only with a more positive message, we can triumph over evil, unlike in 1984 where you imagine a boot stomping on a face for ever. Magma is ultimately uplifting, and spiritual....

The story starts off dystopian and turns Utopian.   A bit like a 1984 type totalitarian world, only referencing Naziism in particular rather than the communism that Orwell referenced, becomes more like the Chronicles of Narnia.

Which was me being rather too fanciful perhaps (but I like draw in my own references to make a fuller experience).

Edited by Logan - August 14 2018 at 05:41

Yeah I'm thinking Mr. Vander's not a bad guy at this point. I've been listening to some Magma again and really enjoying it. I even meditated to MDK today(first time in several months) and man that felt good.

Also thank you to everyone who gave suggestions of other music that might be good for meditation. 

^ Mind you, there are those who make Lemmy look like an amateur:

The Man Who Sleeps In Hitler's Bed

I found this morbidly fascinating. And morbid is the word I think, Wheatcroft seems like a very sad individual.

Edited by Mascodagama - August 13 2018 at 15:15

Lewian wrote: I think there's a big difference between using symbols of oppression to make an artistic or fictional point versus using those symbols because they actually represent your own ideology. True and fair enough, but there's a third category in which such symbols may be used out of lack of consideration making a "point" that wouldn't have required them and could have been better transported without, even though they still don't represent one's own ideology. And maybe a fourth category in which there's a probably somewhat irrational fascination on show with these symbols and what they represent, without explicitly either supporting the ideology or distancing oneself from it. This is easily misinterpreted, and because it involves an element of provocation, the artist may be fine with that, at least for the moment. (David Bowie comes to mind.)

Something like Lemmy's collection of Nazi memorabilia and fondness for wearing the Iron Cross falls into category four I guess. I am 100% certain that he was not a Nazi sympathiser or anything similar. He just thought their stuff looked cool. Much as I loved Lemmy that is actually pretty crass, but it didn't make him an evil person, just one with lamentably little tact and good taste. It went hand in hand I guess with his quite sincere inability to give a damn what anyone else thought of him, which in other contexts could be one of his most endearing qualities.

I'm not suggesting Vander is of this type, by the way.


Edited by Mascodagama - August 13 2018 at 12:22

Lewian wrote: When I was much younger (but already at adult age if only just), I used some names and symbols that alluded to Stalin and his reign in a way that it may have been understood as if I was a stalinist, in a game playing framework. There was some meaning to it in the sense that I wanted to put up some "scary" symbolism in a context in which this was slightly grotesque; it fit my humor at the time but now I think it was bad taste and being too young to understand how some things are easily perceived by people.  But I was certainly not a stalinist in any way, I wasn't even uninformed and naive about him, I just was immature in terms of what to communicate and what people make of that. I'm happy that I'm not a public figure and that nobody will dig this out these days to evidence that I was or am a stalinist.  Not sure how far the similarity of this story to Vander goes, just saying...

YESESIS wrote: or you know of some very similar music that isn't Magma.

The.Crimson.King wrote: Mortte wrote: Talking about "bad" guys in rock to me one of the worst is Beefheart. You can read about wikipedia what kind of conditions "Trout Mask Replica" was made. When reading that it really didn´t make me glad, but still I love that album. But anyway if some music has bad vibes, I believe it´s that. I've read similar and highly detailed accounts of Beefheart's, shall we say, "band abuse" in "Captain Beefheart, The Biography" by Mike Barnes (published in 2000).  No, he does not come off like a nice guy, especially during the Trout sessions...but hey, no one was holding a gun to the head of the musicians in the Magic Band and they could have walked away at any time - and probably got a job with Zappa   Back on point...it really comes down to the question:  Can you enjoy the music, but not like the musician?  Of the hundreds of bands I'm into, I know virtually nothing about 90% of the musicians that made the music, a little about 5%, and a lot about the remaining 5%.  To me, the music they created is all that matters.  I don't care that Beefheart was a tyrant, Tony Banks a control freak or Lemmy a collector of nazi memorabilia, it's all about the music. As far as the OP being concerned about meditating to "bad energy" music, I understand the concern, but I'd say let your ears and heart be your guide.  If the music feels right, why care what was in the head of the person that made it?  Otherwise, you'll spend all your time researching musicians instead of digging the music

I agree you fully! When I read about what happened in that year before they recorded Trout, I had a some moments really bad feelings about that album. But I have always also thought if I love some art, I don´t care about what kind of persons have made it. Many artists have been mentally sick & mean (Picasso comes into my mind) but made a great art. And as you said, those Magic Band guys also understood then, that there was something really great becoming, some of them ran away from that house (I think at least Drumbo did it & he was the main person to make Beefheart difficult compositions playable), but they came back because they wanted to finnish the album. What did Zappa payed them at least that time, that was other question.

Nah, I won't delete it. Not only do I commonly dislike censorship, but I feel that deleting this would be "uncharitable" to the people who put time and thought into this thread, there's plenty of positivity on display, some good advice I think, and there is interesting reading. I respect our community. I do imagine how the Vanders might take some of this negatively if they became aware of it, an empathetic reaction on my part, but maybe they'd take it all in good spirits.

Here's Vander talking about John Coltrane -- maybe this gives a bit more of a feeling for the man (there are English subtitles):



I'm a big fan of Coltrane. And by posting this video, I'm not saying that no one could admire both Hitler and John Coltrane at the same time (one potentially could admire aspects of both Jesus and Hitler, and the Dalai Lama and Charles Manson).

Edited by Logan - August 12 2018 at 15:48

Mortte wrote: Talking about "bad" guys in rock to me one of the worst is Beefheart. You can read about wikipedia what kind of conditions "Trout Mask Replica" was made. When reading that it really didn´t make me glad, but still I love that album. But anyway if some music has bad vibes, I believe it´s that.