Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:26 |
emigre80 wrote:
It seemed to me this conversation was crossing the bounds of politeness, and that it was worthwhile trying to steer it back to an actual, you know, discussion. |
I understood that but your example wasn't fair as the labeling came from the ones who have a problem with the term overrated, not the ones taking part in the discussion. No one has ridiculed anyone's love for either album. Not even close.
|
|
emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:21 |
It seemed to me this conversation was crossing the bounds of politeness, and that it was worthwhile trying to steer it back to an actual, you know, discussion.
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:19 |
emigre80 wrote:
^ Maybe we could just have opinions about these things without labeling those who disagree with our opinions in a derogatory manner? For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know. |
But no one has done that. Not in here. Infact no one seem to dislike any of these albums so why would they?Some just feel one or two of them are generally a little OVERRATED and answers politely when someone asks.
|
|
emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:14 |
^ Maybe we could just have opinions about these things without labeling those who disagree with our opinions in a derogatory manner? For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 09:52 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. |
That's exactly what I meant. Do you think this album should really be that high acclaimed, for example (!!!) in the PA album list? - is the question
|
Apparently we shouldn't have opinions about these things. If we do, we are arrogant. The only morally correct way to respond to your question is disgust.
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 09:41 |
emigre80 wrote:
I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated. |
Agreed
|
|
DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 856
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 08:59 |
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them.
|
That's exactly what I meant. Do you think this album should really be that high acclaimed, for example (!!!) in the PA album list? - is the question
Edited by DDPascalDD - September 12 2015 at 08:59
|
|
|
Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13373
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 08:38 |
SteveG wrote:
No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO. |
An that makes two of us.
|
|
emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 07:53 |
I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated.
|
|
emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 07:52 |
I don't think overrated means "albums I don't like." I think it means "albums that mystify me because I don't understand why the majority of people think they are brilliant when I just think they are good, or even great." I'm not condemning either DSOTM or the people who think it's a fantastic album. I'm just saying, I like it, but have never quite managed to see what all the fuss is about. I find WYWH to be a much more interesting and emotionally satisfying album.
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:51 |
Dean wrote:
So by using the word correctly you are being critical of the people who rate the album "too highly"and not of the album itself. That is an arrogance I cannot condone.
As long as we understand were we stand on this we are done here. |
Yes of course! Who else could rate the album too highly than "people"?
But we're done. Fine by me.
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:48 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.
|
"People" rate this album too high was my exact approach in my first post so I used the word correctly even though english isn't my first language and a large part of your large vocabulary is missing from my vocabulary.
I don't think it means "something I don't like" for most. Most here seem to enjoy all four albums just like yourself. You PC-trolls simply underestimate other members intelligence. |
So by using the word correctly you are being critical of the people who rate the album "too highly"and not of the album itself. That is an arrogance I cannot condone.
As long as we understand were we stand on this we are done here.
|
What?
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:36 |
Dean wrote:
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.
|
"People" rate this album too high was my exact approach in my first post so I used the word correctly even though english isn't my first language and a large part of your large vocabulary is missing from my vocabulary.
I don't think it means "something I don't like" for most. Most here seem to enjoy all four albums just like yourself. You PC-trolls simply underestimate other members intelligence.
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:11 |
^That's the spirit!
|
|
frankbostick
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 20 2008
Location: italy
Status: Offline
Points: 268
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:03 |
Very overrated: Rush - Moving Pictures, Hemispheres, A Farewell To Kings etc. IQ - The Road Of Bones Billy Cobham - Spectrum 3RDegree - One & Zeros vol. 1
From the list: a little overrated Genesis - Foxtrot
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:02 |
The Bearded Bard wrote:
Raff wrote:
"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like".
|
That's what it means to me, but to "something I don't like" I'd add "as much as most others, and don't get what others see (hear) in it that is so great".
So I voted for DSotM here, but could've gone with CttE or ItCotCK as well. Hell, I think none of these four are the perfect masterpieces they're made out to be. Same goes for TaaB, btw.
OK, Dean, I'll take my hat. |
An album does not need to be a masterpiece to be widely acclaimed. One trait that all four albums share is they have passed the test of time such that they are still held in high regard by many some 40 years after they were released. This is something that latter-day reappraisals cannot take away.
It cannot be denied that all of these albums have flaws that can be picked over and there is no reason to shield them from criticism. All albums are equal when it comes to criticism, none are beyond reproach and none should be placed upon pedestal to be revered from afar. I have criticised each of these at one time or another and will continue to do so, (some more than others, such is the nature of personal opinion and myopic fandom); I will continue to regard CttE title track as a bit of a mess, "Talk to the Wind" as a plodding ballad, the production on Foxtrot to be dreadful and DSotM is musically too restrained. Only one of these albums would make it onto my personal all-time top 10 of Progressive Rock, but that does not mean that other people who would include one or more of the other three on theirs are wrong.
Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.
|
What?
|
|
Imperial Zeppelin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2013
Location: Kuwait
Status: Offline
Points: 6116
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 05:18 |
The one that I don't like
|
"Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."
|
|
Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:16 |
I will not buy this record, it is scratched.......
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:13 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
^Jeez, just stay out of these threads you all instead of this PC-version of trolling.
|
Nope.
|
What?
|
|
The Bearded Bard
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 24 2012
Location: Behind the Sun
Status: Offline
Points: 12859
|
Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:08 |
Raff wrote:
"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like".
|
That's what it means to me, but to "something I don't like" I'd add "as much as most others, and don't get what others see (hear) in it that is so great".
So I voted for DSotM here, but could've gone with CttE or ItCotCK as well. Hell, I think none of these four are the perfect masterpieces they're made out to be. Same goes for TaaB, btw.
OK, Dean, I'll take my hat.
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.