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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 10:06 |
The T wrote:
I think it is a round egg full of protein and that, if left to hatch, produces quite a mighty bird.
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an ostrich
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 20847
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:58 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
ITCOTCK is a masterpiece of rock music whatever sub-genre you want to put it in. |
C'mon T, by any yardstick it's a curates egg - brilliant in places but heinously sucky in others
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I love all of it unreservedly.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:57 |
what never fails to amaze me is how many people give 5 stars to this album and make bad comments about the second part of "Moonchild". are they aware that this second part constitutes almost a quarter of the album? how can an album of which nearly 25% are bad be a 5 star album?
Edited by BaldJean - March 07 2014 at 09:58
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:53 |
The T wrote:
I think it is a round egg full of protein and that, if left to hatch, produces quite a mighty bird.
| Oh you corn fed Darwinian dame bitch you, as a very experienced rock and classical aficionado, you have to admit that there just might be portions on ITCOTCK that betray the inexperience of the nascent (uncategorised) style?The wise money is on a categorical 'no' hereabouts c.o.c.k.s.u.c.k.e.r
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:47 |
As Lazland mentioned the argument about the first prog album and what exactly constitutes prog will go on forever, but for me it was the first prog album that blew me away (I didn't hear it until 6 months after it's release). The earlier proto prog and or proggy albums by various bands were all great but ITCOTCK took it to a new level imo and was certainly a benchmark for future bands and albums.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Sagichim
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 6632
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:41 |
BaldJean wrote:
"I Talk to the Wind" is most definitely a pop song. a beautiful one with a nice instrumental midsection, but nevertheless a pop song. not prog at all
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I should listen to more pop music then.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:36 |
I think it is a round egg full of protein and that, if left to hatch, produces quite a mighty bird.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:29 |
The T wrote:
ITCOTCK is a masterpiece of rock music whatever sub-genre you want to put it in. | C'mon T, by any yardstick it's a curates egg - brilliant in places but heinously sucky in others
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:26 |
ITCOTCK is a masterpiece of rock music whatever sub-genre you want to put it in.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:24 |
I certainly agree that the reverence many afford to this album is perhaps overstated (given the review average score of 4.59 (farcical, given the content on offer)
The OP is listed as a Prog Reviewer with a total of 17 written reviews but has not yet reviewed this album. Perhaps this represents an opportunity for someone whose opinion is afforded a weighted rating to address the perceived anomaly between recorded score versus post match analysis?.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:14 |
I once again state that I like the album a lot, including ALL of "Moonchild"
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:12 |
HolyMoly wrote:
Black Flag Disqualification is one of the principles on which this site was created, in an indirect sort of way.
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
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Points: 26138
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:04 |
Black Flag Disqualification is one of the principles on which this site was created, in an indirect sort of way.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 09:01 |
While I agree with Dean on not getting too pedantic about classification, that's precisely what tends to happen whenever a few proggy albums prior to ITCOTCK are highlighted. You get that "hey n00b, don't you know ITCOTCK is the first prog album" kind of response and if it is indeed not such an incontrovertible truth (and I broadly agree with Bald Jean that it isn't), at least people could be less emphatic about the way they state it. I love ITCOTCK but it's become a holy cow now, so I welcome contrary perspectives on it, whether they concern its bragging rights to the 'first' epithet or just its perceived quality.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 08:59 |
Big F.u.c.k.i.n.g Deal apparently (excuse the pun)
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
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Points: 7265
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 08:59 |
BaldJean wrote:
and what exactly is a BFD? Black Flag Disqualification? Boston Fire Department?
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I think he means "Big Fooking Deal"
I wasn't in London at the time, so I'm not sure how it influenced the scene. This interview with the late Peter Banks (RIP, dead now for exactly one year today) gives some interesting insights!
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 08:56 |
and what exactly is a BFD? Black Flag Disqualification? Boston Fire Department?
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 08:50 |
I don't know if it's the "first prog album", but it was a BFD when it came out to a lot of the musicians in the nascent (English) prog scene. I think its impact is fairly substantial.
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 08:45 |
Dean wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
having to categorize everything is the eternal flaw of human beings
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Sorry to take this out of context, but it's a very astute observation. Our tendency to classify and break things up into components is not the only way of looking at the world, yet we often take it for granted that nature is really that way.
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We categorise and name things so we can communicate with each other. So classifications are merely points of common reference that allow us to recognise that we are talking about the same thing. This isn't a flaw, quite the opposite, it is a survival trait, without which we'd have died-out from eating plants that no one had bothered to previously classify as poisonous.
Where it all goes wrong is when we get overly concerned by being pedantically exact about it. Sometimes it's okay to call spiders "insects" when there is no need to be taxonomically precise, just as it is perfectly fine to use the word "bugs" to mean all manner of creepy-crawlies and not just those that are insects of the suborder Heteroptera.
Saying that Itchycock (or whatever) was the first prog album is merely a point of reference so we all know what we are talking about. When we pedantically pick over it with a pseudo-musicological taxonomy it loses that peg-in-the-ground relationship and when approached like that very few (if any) albums would survive such close scrutiny. So it's semi-arbitrary consensus (by some undeclared common agreement) that this particular album is chosen to be "the first Prog album", and there is nothing wrong with that, any one of a number of albums could have been picked, it doesn't actually change anything. Itchycock suddenly doesn't become any easier or harder to listen to, it doesn't instantly become an album that you are not permitted to like or dislike; and so its status as an album is not affected by whatever label you give it.
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I agree. Classifying is very useful. It's how we organize our thoughts. But as you say (pardon the paraphrase here), when we take it too literally and insist that the classification is an actual metaphysical reality, it can lead to problems. When it comes to calling something "prog" or "not prog", or "the first prog album", in the end the music is just itself and the labels are just a convenience.
Edited by HolyMoly - March 07 2014 at 08:46
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 07 2014 at 08:43 |
BaldJean wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
I am completely aware that this post is extremely heretical, and I fully expect to be subjected to the Spanish inquisition for it
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The lady doth protest too much methinks. Yes, it's a very patchy album that contains some inordinately lengthy stoned d.i.c.k.i.n.g. about, some hippy gothic histrionics (right up your generously proportioned psychedelic alley I would have thought) and some unimpeachably
sublime moments of pure unadulterated Prog fresh from the source. I guess that picking this album apart in 2014 might be compared to Jeremy Clarkson marking the Model T Ford down for the lack of a drinks holder, GPS and airbags? Yeah, nothing beats engineered controversy.
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since I am originally a historian who for some reason wound up as a restaurant owner I am fully aware of this. it is in fact part of my statement. that's why I stated my second sentence, and I think it can not be repeated often enough: there is no such thing as a first prog album.
I actually couldn't care less how an album is being categorized. all that matters to me is: is it "good music" (meaning "music I like"). and I mentioned that I like the album a lot, and all of it
| OK, no-one will dispute that you couldn't care less about how an album is categorized e.g. some people lazily categorize this one as being the first Prog album etc yet you have started a thread to underline your indifference to such categorisation? I love bits of it a lot but not all of it (and that's not because I consider the bits I don't like ain't Prog - I just think some of it is stoned hippy w..a.n.k.)
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