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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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 Posted: May 04 2013 at 11:44 |
 Stool Man wrote:
Are there no Prog singer-songwriters? |
Ian Anderson, Jon Anderson, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Bjork, a few I could think of.
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Argonaught
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 04 2012
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1413
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 21:01 |
For most intents and purposes, David Bowie is a person, and not a catch-all musical genre. As for the genre he is most known for, it's called art-rock.
That said, a portion of his stuff could be classified as prog. Same applies to just about any other rock band of the time who achieved above-average competence and fancied veering off of the beaten 4-chord, 4/4 path.
Edited by Argonaught - May 04 2013 at 19:16
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13065
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 21:00 |
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David Bowie, like Ian Anderson, Frank Zappa or Peter Gabriel, was only 'prog' when he wanted to be. At other times they were each something else altogether. The term prog to is often too confining.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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javier0889
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 170
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 18:33 |
David Bowie is still more "risky" than the average prog songwriter. Length of the song matters not. But I must agree - he's his own kind of entity, not just "prog" or even "a musical act".
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http://www.last.fm/user/javier0889
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 17:19 |
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The correct answer is sometimes.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 03:06 |
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Are there no Prog singer-songwriters?
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: May 03 2013 at 02:15 |
Stool Man wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
Perhaps a critical factor is that he was not really an instrumentalist and it was not a 'band'. It was the music conceived by a singer-songwriter. Had he been a competent instrumentalist, or had he been just the composer and singer in a stable band with virtuoso musicians, his output might have been closer to proper Prog.
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To quote from Bowie's wikipage:
"Bowie plays many instruments, among them electric, acoustic, and twelve-string guitar; alto, tenor and baritone saxophone; keyboards including piano, synthesisers and Mellotron; harmonica, Stylophone, xylophone, vibraphone, koto, drums and percussion, and string instruments including viola and cello"
Not really an instrumentalist?
He was in several stable bands - The Spiders and Tin Machine among them. |
Sure he could play several instruments, but I meant that he was never a fully dedicated and highly competent instrumentalist. His approach to songwriting was more akin to the singer-songwriter approach (many if not most singer-songwriters can play some instruments too).
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ole-the-first
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 20:43 |
Man With Hat wrote:
Absolutely not. |
Sir, are you really sure about that? The word 'absolutely' would mean that Berlin trilogy is not prog too.
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This night wounds time.
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
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Posted: May 02 2013 at 03:15 |
Gerinski wrote:
Perhaps a critical factor is that he was not really an instrumentalist and it was not a 'band'. It was the music conceived by a singer-songwriter. Had he been a competent instrumentalist, or had he been just the composer and singer in a stable band with virtuoso musicians, his output might have been closer to proper Prog.
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To quote from Bowie's wikipage:
"Bowie plays many instruments, among them electric, acoustic, and twelve-string guitar; alto, tenor and baritone saxophone; keyboards including piano, synthesisers and Mellotron; harmonica, Stylophone, xylophone, vibraphone, koto, drums and percussion, and string instruments including viola and cello"
Not really an instrumentalist?
He was in several stable bands - The Spiders and Tin Machine among them.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: May 01 2013 at 03:43 |
Dean wrote:
I tend to write whole sentences rather than well chosen phrases because they mean so much more thus negating any need for the reader to search for any implied meaning, subtext or hidden message burried between the lines. |
OK, no need to get pissed off 
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
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Points: 24310
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Posted: May 01 2013 at 03:41 |
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I'd say No in general, Yes occasionally. Yet most of his work can be called Art Rock.
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The Mystical
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 604
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Posted: May 01 2013 at 03:23 |
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I consider "Heroes", "Low" and "Scary Monsters" prog. I also think that all of his 80s pop albums have strong prog influences.
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I am currently digging:
Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz!
Please drop me a message with album suggestions.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: May 01 2013 at 03:14 |
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Absolutely not.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 01 2013 at 03:04 |
Gerinski wrote:
Dean wrote:
For many Bowie typifies what has been descibed in the Progressive vs. Prog thread as a progressive artist who is not Prog |
Quite this. Perhaps a critical factor is that he was not really an instrumentalist and it was not a 'band'. It was the music conceived by a singer-songwriter. Had he been a competent instrumentalist, or had he been just the composer and singer in a stable band with virtuoso musicians, his output might have been closer to proper Prog. I find it not too different from the case of Peter Gabriel's solo output, progressive and with some Prog leanings but not archetypal proper Prog.
Dean wrote:
He produced some Prog songs, but maybe not whole Prog albums, he did Concept albums (albeit within fairly a standard rock format) and even ventured into the realm of Art Rock and Art School Rock. He has created fusions of every school of music you can care to imagine: minimalism, krautrock, jazz, soul, hip-hop, electronic, hard-rock, folk... and of course prog... (He is also pretty unique in suceeding in influencing some of the people he was influenced by - the only other artist to do that I can think of is Trent Reznor...) yet he remains a mainstream performer in the eyes of the world, even when producing non-mainstream albums.
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The point is clear but this formulation seems to imply that anything "mainstream" can not be "Prog" by definition, which I do not agree as a matter of principle.
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I tend to write whole sentences rather than well chosen phrases because they mean so much more thus negating any need for the reader to search for any implied meaning, subtext or hidden message burried between the lines.
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What?
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: May 01 2013 at 02:56 |
Dean wrote:
For many Bowie typifies what has been descibed in the Progressive vs. Prog thread as a progressive artist who is not Prog |
Quite this. Perhaps a critical factor is that he was not really an instrumentalist and it was not a 'band'. It was the music conceived by a singer-songwriter. Had he been a competent instrumentalist, or had he been just the composer and singer in a stable band with virtuoso musicians, his output might have been closer to proper Prog. I find it not too different from the case of Peter Gabriel's solo output, progressive and with some Prog leanings but not archetypal proper Prog.
Dean wrote:
He produced some Prog songs, but maybe not whole Prog albums, he did Concept albums (albeit within fairly a standard rock format) and even ventured into the realm of Art Rock and Art School Rock. He has created fusions of every school of music you can care to imagine: minimalism, krautrock, jazz, soul, hip-hop, electronic, hard-rock, folk... and of course prog... (He is also pretty unique in suceeding in influencing some of the people he was influenced by - the only other artist to do that I can think of is Trent Reznor...) yet he remains a mainstream performer in the eyes of the world, even when producing non-mainstream albums.
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The point is clear but this formulation seems to imply that anything "mainstream" can not be "Prog" by definition, which I do not agree as a matter of principle.
Edited by Gerinski - May 01 2013 at 02:57
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Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5012
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 22:13 |
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Of course he is. He's more "progressive" then half of the bands that get labelled as that. No, he doesn't have that classic 70's prog sound, Hammond organs, instrumental prowess, etc. But as artist and a visionary, he's extremely forward thinking. Low and Heroes are some of the greatest albums of all time, and what's great about them is that they haven't been able to alienate a certain audience or fan. They're pop albums, but with immense experimentation and creativity.
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humor4u1959
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 02 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 97
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 21:35 |
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He was but not since Low and Heroes. Those are the only 2 albums I would consider prog.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 18:00 |
darqdean, in another thread, 3rd October 2007 wrote:
For many Bowie typifies what has been descibed in the Progressive vs. Prog thread as a progressive artist who is not Prog. Almost everything he does is simultaneously eclectic and progressive - his albums generally arrive from the leftfield and land slap bang in the middle of the mainstream. And that's where the problem lies.
He produced some Prog songs, but maybe not whole Prog albums, he did Concept albums (albeit within fairly a standard rock format) and even ventured into the realm of Art Rock and Art School Rock. He has created fusions of every school of music you can care to imagine: minimalism, krautrock, jazz, soul, hip-hop, electronic, hard-rock, folk... and of course prog... (He is also pretty unique in suceeding in influencing some of the people he was influenced by - the only other artist to do that I can think of is Trent Reznor...) yet he remains a mainstream performer in the eyes of the world, even when producing non-mainstream albums. |
Nothing ch-ch-ch-changes.
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What?
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wilmon91
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2009
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 698
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 17:05 |
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I was thinking "art pop". But not prog.
David Bowie is David Bowie.
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 17:00 |
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Everyone who was Art Rock is now Prog, a simple name change
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Is David Bowie prog?
