The Stranglers???

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 BaldJean wrote:

there is a lot of prog out there which is VERY repetitive (just think of Can, for example)

...and much Hawkwind, Kosmisch, etc - in which there is also a great deal of the punk ethic and attitude, as well as heavy metal and all the other goodies that make up Kosmisch music.

 BaldJean wrote:

 can't understand how or where anyone hears "punk" in the music of the Stranglers. this is not 3-chords music at all

Here's where I disagree - there IS a strong punk ingredient in the Stranglers' music - but that's no reason in itself to cross them out of a Prog-related category, as flirting with other musical styles is an essential ingredient of Prog.

 Jon The Impaler wrote:

(...)The Clash started out as a punk band but progressed to other styles - I wouldn't call them prog though .I didn't like the direction The Clash took , but thats just personal taste .

There's a different level of sophistication between the Clash and the Stranglers. I can take or leave most of the Clash's out put - although I really dig their flirtations with dub, such as "Guns of Brixton".

 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 BaldJean wrote:

read the post I posted immediately before yours, Ivan. there is no real polyphony in the Mamas and the Papas

Yes they have POLYPHONIC vocals and choirs, as a fact, they are famous for that.

What about Early Beach Boys or REM or OMD?

 BaldJean wrote:

Ivan, have a look at the checklist. that should tell you all. or do we really have to redefine prog?

Have answered this exact same question a few posts above

Iván

There is clear confusion here - sorry Ivan, but it's true - between Polyphony (multiple independent voices) and simple part harmony - or indeed, its most corrupt form, parallel chord movement. 

The latter is corrupt, in the worst cases, because performers simply follow identical lines at a fixed pitch below or above the main harmony line. This involves next to no compositional skill. 

Polyphony requires real compositional skill, because not only do you have to satisfy the need for clear, separate parts with melodic beauty/logic  in themselves, but also the vertical harmonic aspects. Skilled polyphonists will put off harmonic resolution until later, creating odd, sometimes jarring moments. Since the payback is later in time, this can be difficult for the casual ear to detect, so is unsuitable for most pop music.

This practice also implies a clear overview of form - one of the most overlooked (because it's difficult) aspects of rock music writing. If you're involved in true polyphonic writing, chances are that you're not focussing on verse, chorus, bridge, etc., but are instead having to concentrate like mad on what I would consider a "higher" form (if only because it requires thought, skill, artistry and logic to bring it about).

The other things polyphonic writers have to be careful and skilful with are rhythm (astonishing cross-rhythms and polyrhythms can emerge, if you get it right, but misjudge, and the whole thing sounds a mess.), and timbre (ie, if the voices don't work well together, and the dynamic is poor, then you might just as well not bother.

REAL Polyphony is difficult, IMO - for what that's worth to anyone - and I do admire the Stranglers' frequent experimentations in that area - although I think that most of it comes from a musical arrogance more befitting a Prog band of the untrained variety (and there are many!) - even though the music is more polished and precise than many of the educated bands.

The Stranglers merely "made it" during the UK Punk revolution of the mid 1970s - they formed in respectable Guildford in 1973, but had their first hit with "Peaches"/"Go Buddy Go" in 1977. This single, like "God Save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols (released around the same time), was banned from airplay ("Go Buddy Go" was played instead), and, like GSTQ, was first released in a highly controversial sleeve, featuring lettering cut from newspapers - so are only really Punk by association - ie, the music is aggressive, and not heavy metal, ergo punk (to a straw man...). The replacement sleeve for "Peaches" is remarkably similar to the cover of Gentle Giant's "Acquiring the Taste", if you think about it...

Poll Question: Are the Stranglers Eligible for this sight as a classic progger?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Yes, no question	11	[25.58%]
Perhaps	7	[16.28%]
Not even close	25	[58.14%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted