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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: September 08 2008 at 12:24 |
DT has complex moments, but for the most part they have become very formulaic. When speaking in prog- metal terms, there are several bands that are far more complex. Unexpect uses multiple vocalists, keys and RIO textures. In fact, I would call it "Metal in Oposition". Martyr, especially their last album, Feeding the Abscess, makes DT sound like Journey. Chile's Coprofago was extremely complex with Unorthodox Creative Createria, throwing in Holdsworth style jazz sections. And of course, Ron Jarzombek and Spastic Ink. The cool thing about RJ's projects is he explains the meanings behind the complexity and does it w/o inflated ego or condescension. Someone also mentioned Behold...the Arctopus, a fine choice indeed.
The RIO/Avaunt Gard sub-genre has the greatest abundance of complex bands. For pure complexity Zappa is the most consistent. Even when a song has an overall "straight ahead" texture, you can hear underlying complexity. e.g. One Size Fits All, Roxy and Elsewhere. Mr. Bungle, with their "flick of the switch" style changes are also pretty out there. In this sub-genre complexity is very much in the ear of the beholder. Bands like Universe Zero, Captain Beefheart, and The Flying Luttenbachers are outrageously complex, but might lean to far into the dissonant side for many listeners. Even Zappa goes to those places with some of his work, particularly his orchestral pieces like LSO I & II, Yellow Shark.
Jazz/Fusion also has tons of complex bands like Brand X, Return to Forever. Jazz is of course founded on complexity. Even in the 1930's, Raymond Scott was doing some very complex music. (He might fit well in PA)
For Zeuhl I would have to go with (I know some Magma zealot is going to shoot me) KoenjiHyakkei. Amongst other sub-genres, Giant Giant is exceptionally complex, nobody has more vocal complexity. And of course King Crimson, lots of instrumental "talkback" and flighty finger on guitar.
I see people in this thread answering with the more "accessible" bands. Dig deeper if you like complexity. The most complex stuff is not mass produced. For pre-1990, go with bands in the Jazz/Fusion or RIO/Avant genres. Post-1990, Tech/Extreme Metal seems to the best bet if want to hear complexity.
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24294
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Posted: September 08 2008 at 08:52 |
Gentle Giant. Yes and Frank Zappa also have a high level of complexity.
Maybe there are others whose music is at least as complex in the Jazz Rock/Fusion or the RIO/Avant-prog genres, but I'm not deep in those genres.
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: September 07 2008 at 20:40 |
I know that GG and DT are pretty complex, but the most complex music i've ever heard is by Behold... The Arctopus. I think they're very interesting. It seems like they just pick a tone and a number and make that their notes and time signature. After they're done with that bar, they just do it again. Their ability to memorize such strange and unconventional music astounds me. From what I've heard they're much like Spastic Ink.
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TempusFugit
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 23 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: September 07 2008 at 13:00 |
Of the prog I've heard, Chocolate Kings (PFM -1975) comes to mind as the most complex album I can think of. When asked about it, the bassman Djivas said it was an exhausting album to make because of its incredible complexity. Chocolate KIngs and Per un Amico are the 2 PFM albums I prefer; Per un Amico is more acoustic, Chocolate Kings has more electric instruments to it and is more intense, but both are incredible.
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Big Ears
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2005
Location: Hants, England
Status: Offline
Points: 727
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 05:47 |
Dream Theatre, particularly on Systematic Chaos, seem very complex to me - although I do not know much about them. The Beach Boys harmonies are complicated and Todd Rundgren, on Face the Music, replicated them extremely well. Al DiMeola's and Gary Boyle's (jazz-rock) guitar playing is both complex and very fast. For almost irritating complexity I would go for Gentle Giant.
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sircosick
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 29 2007
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 1264
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Posted: July 29 2008 at 20:38 |
Zappa wasn't always prog. For the properly progressive acts, it gotta be King Crimson. Any aforementioned jazz prog-fusion bands (as Mahavishnu Orchestra and the likes) also deserves a mention.
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The best you can is good enough...
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Erpland316
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 30 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 359
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Posted: July 24 2008 at 13:44 |
Technically speaking, Mahavishnu Orchestra by a long shot. Just listen to Birds of Fire, they really are on fire! Groups like Magma and King Crimson are up there too...as well as other jazz fusion groups like Return to Forever. These groups are special because they are beyond technicality (which often turns cheesy very fast i.e. Dream Theater etc.). Their music has soul and muscle to back up the sound!
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"Science is all metaphor"-Timothy Leary
[IMG]http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.jones10/amonpic.jpg">[IMG]http://imagegen.last.fm/red/artists/Yeti316.gif">
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Warhol
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 16 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Posted: July 24 2008 at 04:18 |
For me the greatest musician who was prog-oriented is Frank Zappa, but also I can say King Crimson and Magma are very complex, in an accessible way, because I consider complexity and the level you can listen one band are direct proportionally.
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YesGoblin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 07 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 63
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Posted: July 23 2008 at 21:02 |
ELP for sure, Yes can be somewhat complex,
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ProgShine
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 04 2005
Location: Kalisz, Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1256
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Posted: July 23 2008 at 13:17 |
I have to say the two classics, Gentle Giant and Yezda Urfa, GREAT
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https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com
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Single Coil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 301
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Posted: July 23 2008 at 13:11 |
MTZArts wrote:
On a few of their albums, King Crimson screwed around with different timing until the point where it would make a theory god like Pat Martino's head spin. |
Pat Martino = a "theory god". Very funny, yet very true !
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If it's worth playing, it's worth playing loud!
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 13:30 |
ELP's Toccata seems to be very complex.
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 13:15 |
preqT0THEseq7 wrote:
Between the Buried and Me |
, as much as people hate it BTBAM is and DT is very tech too.
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preqT0THEseq7
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 02 2008
Location: Pominville
Status: Offline
Points: 94
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 13:12 |
Between the Buried and Me
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Idk, My BFF Steve.
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muddoctor
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 05 2008
Location: indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: July 15 2008 at 11:41 |
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Dorsalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006
Location: Cape Mola
Status: Offline
Points: 367
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Posted: July 14 2008 at 20:17 |
mellors wrote:
Structurally: Mauldin of the Well/Kayo Dot
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I guess my perception of Kayo Dot being one of the most structureless and free form bands is totally off the mark.
Edited by Dorsalia - July 14 2008 at 20:50
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: July 12 2008 at 17:17 |
The most complex thing is that which is the most difficult for you to get into....
So maybe the most complex band is Sigur Ros.. for me it's quite easier to dominate quantum physics than understand what the hell that guy pretends to do...
As for "complexity", I rather have good simpler music than boring "ultra complex" music.... But I like some complex things... It all depends on taste.... And I have no idea which the most complex band is... those with music PHDs or degrees: go take a ruler and measure conplexity in whatever way you think is most logical, and please tell us the answer. It will add to the trivia section....
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areazione
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 12 2008
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 47
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Posted: July 12 2008 at 16:25 |
I do not know if I can name just one single most-complex band. Surely, these are good nominations
1. King Crimson 2. Area 3. Meshuggah 4. Return to Forever 5. Mahavishnu Orchestra 6. Planet X 7. Frank Zappa 8. Gentle Giant 9. Egg 10. Anglagard
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 02:28 |
I agree, cacho, that a lot of Marillion is not entirely complex however they have the 19 minute epic Grendel that has an incredible multimovement suite in the style of early Genesis. Spock's Beard perhaps is not the most complex but once again their CDs Octane and The Light are full of interchanging time signatures and multi chord changes. I agree too that Topographic Oceans has to rank as one of the most complex CDs.
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 23:13 |
happy the man, sammla mammas manna
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