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Topic ClosedExclusionsist or Inclusivist?
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Poll Question: Does Contemporary Progressive in 2014 still constitute Prog?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
46 [83.64%]
9 [16.36%]
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Rick Robson View Drop Down
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 14:54
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

I picked option #1.
                   I don't like modern prog, but I would never say that prog ended in 1979, it's still developing and evolving.
 
This.


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Points: 13232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 14:22
In the 70s, nearly every great rock band with any interest in musicianship had its prog moments, such as The Who and Led Zeppelin, and even folks like Alice Cooper, Bowie, Elton John, Roxy Music and Billy Joel (for Christ's sake!). Other bands, such as Tull, Floyd and Genesis bounced in and out, chameleon-like. I am not sure the interest is on the same level currently. Certainly, great swathes of the listening public do not listen to what we old farts would consider rock music with the same interest as in that bygone era. Rock music is really not the Billboard juggernaut it once was.

Sometimes, I'll listen to a band like Big Big Train (with wonderful albums like Underfall Yard and English Electric I & II), and I begin to wonder if I like the albums because they are very reminiscent to what I listened to as a teenager (and I would suggest that English Electric I would probably be an album I would have listened to in 1976 or 77). 

Meh, I just don't know. But I do know what I like (in my wardrobe and through my speakers).Wink
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 13:58
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Option 1 however I do believe that we have to question very carefully what is included in this inclusivity (I've had to include that word into Chrome's spell checker, oh the iron knee) and not lose complete sight of where it came from and what it is (this "Prog" thing). 

Contrary to popular belief, Prog is not evolving, it is our acceptance of what can be considered to be Prog that is changing with time, which is why there is this dichotomy between "Classic Prog" of the 1970s and everything that came after. 

If there was a nice unbroken linear evolution in Progressive Rock over the past 40 years then we would not be having this poll, or the hours of debate over the past 10 years of this site about whether band "Y" or band "Z" are "prog enough" to be included, or whether Extreme Metal, Post Rock and Math Rock should be here, or whether Avant, Zeuhl, Canterbury and Krautrock are Prog subgenres, or whether Electronic Prog has any validity at all... or condescending ellipsis-riddled posts on the adjectival use of progressive in the noun phrase Progressive Rock.

So, I'm all for inclusiveness but I think we can go too far in the rush to add anything and everything that sounds just a tad left of centre. 

Progressive rock maybe does not evolve, but for sure it multiplies in the dozens of new styles now. Or to put it this way - once you had e.g. one Fripp, one Hillage (as great English prog innovators in their heydays) and so on, now you have a number of them; one can say - more innovators than the listeners. Of course, some of them will not pass the test of time and those who remain will be great masters at their own progland and they will be evegreens, same as the old ones. 
I doubt that.
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 12:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Option 1 however I do believe that we have to question very carefully what is included in this inclusivity (I've had to include that word into Chrome's spell checker, oh the iron knee) and not lose complete sight of where it came from and what it is (this "Prog" thing). 

Contrary to popular belief, Prog is not evolving, it is our acceptance of what can be considered to be Prog that is changing with time, which is why there is this dichotomy between "Classic Prog" of the 1970s and everything that came after. 

If there was a nice unbroken linear evolution in Progressive Rock over the past 40 years then we would not be having this poll, or the hours of debate over the past 10 years of this site about whether band "Y" or band "Z" are "prog enough" to be included, or whether Extreme Metal, Post Rock and Math Rock should be here, or whether Avant, Zeuhl, Canterbury and Krautrock are Prog subgenres, or whether Electronic Prog has any validity at all... or condescending ellipsis-riddled posts on the adjectival use of progressive in the noun phrase Progressive Rock.

So, I'm all for inclusiveness but I think we can go too far in the rush to add anything and everything that sounds just a tad left of centre. 

Progressive rock maybe does not evolve, but for sure it multiplies in the dozens of new styles now. Or to put it this way - once you had e.g. one Fripp, one Hillage (as great English prog innovators in their heydays) and so on, now you have a number of them; one can say - more innovators than the listeners. Of course, some of them will not pass the test of time and those who remain will be great masters at their own progland and they will be evegreens, same as the old ones. 


Edited by Svetonio - April 12 2014 at 13:20
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Points: 4574 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 12:30
Yes!!
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Points: 956 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 11:42
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

I suppose the first choice but I'd be curious to know how many modern prog bands really label or think of themselves as "prog ".

I think that this is a good point. Prog rock seems to be a wide definition. For us (unless for me), the listeners, we feel it (the new "prog" bands) as progressive rock, and I feel ok by this way, but the bands? I don't know. But the music is there and if it fits with the basic parameters that define the genre, so they are. With the seventies the prog rock stopped as a massive thing, but the spirit of this kind of music continues on all this new bands till present, and even in more sophisticated formats sometimes. So the spirit of the prog music is even there, and so the prog rock too. Of course Option 1.
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 11:32
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

I suppose the first choice but I'd be curious to know how many modern prog bands really label or think of themselves as "prog ".

The real question is how many of the 70's bands would call themselves "Prog", I'm sure any one of us could find plenty that said they weren't.
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 11:29
Prog ended in 1978. (Voice from the past) lol 
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Points: 8778 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 11:25
I picked option #1.
                   I don't like modern prog, but I would never say that prog ended in 1979, it's still developing and evolving.
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Points: 7024 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:58
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 

So, I'm all for inclusiveness but I think we can go too far in the rush to add anything and everything that sounds just a tad left of centre. 

Hear hear!!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:54
Option 1 however I do believe that we have to question very carefully what is included in this inclusivity (I've had to include that word into Chrome's spell checker, oh the iron knee) and not lose complete sight of where it came from and what it is (this "Prog" thing). 

Contrary to popular belief, Prog is not evolving, it is our acceptance of what can be considered to be Prog that is changing with time, which is why there is this dichotomy between "Classic Prog" of the 1970s and everything that came after. 

If there was a nice unbroken linear evolution in Progressive Rock over the past 40 years then we would not be having this poll, or the hours of debate over the past 10 years of this site about whether band "Y" or band "Z" are "prog enough" to be included, or whether Extreme Metal, Post Rock and Math Rock should be here, or whether Avant, Zeuhl, Canterbury and Krautrock are Prog subgenres, or whether Electronic Prog has any validity at all... or condescending ellipsis-riddled posts on the adjectival use of progressive in the noun phrase Progressive Rock.

So, I'm all for inclusiveness but I think we can go too far in the rush to add anything and everything that sounds just a tad left of centre. 


Edited by Dean - April 12 2014 at 10:55
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:46
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Here's another example of a modern Prog band thinking outside the box - Panzerballett. Who'd have thought of melding Fusion with Tech Metal ?? Somewhat at odds with each other stylistically, but this is something totally new and brings a big smile to my face.

Maybe the greatest quality of a solid piece of contemporary progressive rock is just that it does not have anything to do with the late 60s / early 70s (symphonic) prog; In fact, the most important thing is that progressive rock - at least in a part - is separated now from the old forms, and the fact that it's already recognized by the audience as progressive rock aswell.


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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:23
Here's another example of a modern Prog band thinking outside the box - Panzerballett. Who'd have thought of melding Fusion with Tech Metal ?? Somewhat at odds with each other stylistically, but this is something totally new and brings a big smile to my face.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 10:22
There always will be some new style(s) of rock music what people will call prog(ressive); prog is what "we" (audience) declare that this is prog.
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Points: 4095 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 09:06
I suppose the first choice but I'd be curious to know how many modern prog bands really label or think of themselves as "prog ".
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 07:07
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...


Your hatred of death would never make it past 'archives' and would have Dark Side of the Moon evicted from the site as inadmissible  pronto, but the so called old brigade did not suffer from collective deafness post 1979, it's just we started to wonder if this thing we are listening to has maybe ceased to be Prog and evolved into a different creature?


But i am sure this new creature would be something related to Prog.  I think that Prog went on a break in 1979, but came back in the 90's and continue as today. Call it Retro Prog, Neo Prog, Post-Prog, it's still Prog. We have to be always careful with the word evolution especially in a Darwinism sense.


Yep, that a valid perspective. I just want to try to attempt to arrive at some sort of consensus on where we're at on this potentially divisive  issue
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Points: 7024 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 07:06
Classic prog undoubtedly reached its zenith in the 1970s in terms of popularity and I remain certain that many of the bands active then justifiably remain amongst the most revered in the genre.

But did prog die then?

No way! The new wave of symphonic prog bands who emerged in the early 80s (Marillion, IQ and the like), bands like Mostly Autumn, Riverside, Iona, Big Big Train and others too numerous to mention all brought something new to the table and I listen to them a lot, deriving huge enjoyment.

Many other bands also appeared, some of which I personally do not enjoy, do not consider to be true prog or even prog related at all, but are here because others do and have chosen to put them on here; I guess prog was always a pretty broad church anyway so I can cope with it.

I would actually say the opposite to Sleeper - I find far more discussion of more modern trends in prog now than when I joined this site; some of the classic 70s bands seem to be mentioned far less frequently now than then.

Bad thing? No - there's room for all tastes here, so long as people never forget where it all started.
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Points: 5409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 07:00
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...


Your hatred of death would never make it past 'archives' and would have Dark Side of the Moon evicted from the site as inadmissible  pronto, but the so called old brigade did not suffer from collective deafness post 1979, it's just we started to wonder if this thing we are listening to has maybe ceased to be Prog and evolved into a different creature?


But i am sure this new creature would be something related to Prog.  I think that Prog went on a break in 1979, but came back in the 90's and continue as today. Call it Retro Prog, Neo Prog, Post-Prog, it's still Prog. We have to be always careful with the word evolution especially in a Darwinism sense.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:55
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...
No Hammill for you !!!
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2014 at 06:44
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

I presume it's a Poll to see who are those who have stopped listening to Prog in 1979 and those who have continue... I am a inclusivist because i hate everything that makes me think of death...


Your hatred of death would never make it past 'archives' and would have Dark Side of the Moon evicted from the site as inadmissible  pronto, but the so called old brigade did not suffer from collective deafness post 1979, it's just we started to wonder if this thing we are listening to has maybe ceased to be Prog and evolved into a different creature?
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