Stripping a myth - the truth about ITCOTCK

rogerthat wrote: Maybe there were, but length is relative.  I reckon the last minute and half of I Talk to the Wind would be chopped for a pop edit, it needs to be more to-the-point.  Er, of course, it's a hypothetical discussion anyway.

"Hey Jude" by the Beatles is 7:11, and the end of it is nothing but "laaa-la-la -lalala-lah, lalala-lah, hey Jude" going on and on, with John Lennon shouting "hey Jude" all over it ecstatically. and it was in the charts. so I really don't think any editing would have been necessary for "I Talk to the Wind"


Edited by BaldJean - March 07 2014 at 10:56

Maybe there were, but length is relative.  I reckon the last minute and half of I Talk to the Wind would be chopped for a pop edit, it needs to be more to-the-point.  Er, of course, it's a hypothetical discussion anyway.

No, we are discussing classification here.  The question is not whether it could have been a single but whether it is pop rather than prog.  That is important as far as this discussion goes because the OP is built on the claim that the presumption that ITCOTCK was the first full prog album (as opposed to albums with some prog tracks) is not necessarily true.

'I Talk to the Wind' was a pretty song albeit one that outstayed it's welcome notwithstanding it was never released as a single: so we are debating a mooted hit single oversight that was never a single?

Edited by ExittheLemming - March 07 2014 at 10:41

Well, the length could have come in the way so it may have required an edit.   I think it is mainly the vocal melody that makes it difficult for people to regard it as pop.  It (the melody) sounds like it has more to do with the native British music and doesn't evoke pop or, well, genres that were popular at that time like R&B or country.  I would describe it as more of an extended folk song.  Its development is not just conventional, it's also very cyclical, i.e. not prog enough imo.  Again - and I feel it should not be necessary to re-emphasis this - I love the track.  

Edited by rogerthat - March 07 2014 at 10:37

ExittheLemming wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: BaldJean wrote: what never fails to amaze me is how many people give 5 stars to this album and make bad comments about the second part of "Moonchild". are they aware that this second part constitutes almost a quarter of the album? how can an album of which nearly 25% are bad be a 5 star album? I was about to post something along these lines, but then again, the ratings on PA are highly inflated. I won't name names here, but just here the other day I saw a collab giving three stars (3 stars=good album) to an album he basically thought was boring The same goes for Selling England by the Pound, where you find a lot of reviewers throwing 5 stars at an album where they detest Epping Forest,.......... but let's keep it to KC. Loads of folks award Red with 5 stars even though they don't particularly like Providence... and the list literally goes on. The problem each of these 5 star regurgitators get - is when they face an album they think is even better than what they've heard before. They run out of stars.  Admittedly, I've just written about a lot of, what I personally think of as masterpiece albums, offering up a lot of 5 stars, but in my defence, I started out stating this exact fact. I don't pull the 5 star trigger easily. Back to ITCOTCK: When I first purchased it, I was hugely under-whelmed. I loved the first two cuts - in particular I talk to the Wind, but the rest I couldn't be bothered with. The fact that so many others kept singing it's praises on here made me even more insusceptible to it's charms. Recently, though, I've warmed up to it - and I happen to dig Moonchild now Epitaph is still a big bag of margarine to these ears, and I highly doubt that'll ever change....  Give some credit to Niklas Bendtner's apologist that he has at the very least ensured being punched into paralysis is preferable to a big bag of Margarine Dream to the lesser charges of  smugness aforethought applicable to crimes against routinely open goals for Arsenal FC

Generally agree with BaldJean---think of it more like a "gothic hippie album" lol--although just because a song has a set structure doesn't make it sound like a "pop" song to me.

It should get 5 stars because it's innovative. I must render that a creation which influences others in the field to write differently is a rare accomplishment. I believe the melodies defined here as "Pop" are being confused with other purposes for USING melodies. Written melodies will always cross the path with the melodies written for "Pop" music...however it doesn't mean that the darker melodies written for "I Talk to the Wind" cross anything other than a guided melody line containg a few notes that were used in some Pop song. The idea and purpose is to write an interesting melody over the progressive composition. There are about a hundred underground European Prog bands that have written series of notes ...that have existed in "Pop" music hits. All music crosses paths. Much of 'Pop music is contrived. The record executive standing over your shoulder ...forcing you to use he/she's suggestions. This was more of an attempt to remain melodic throughout the album..yet play progressive on their instruments. "I Talk to the Wind" could have never been a "Pop" song and especially during the time of it's release. The song would have never charted. It's too dark for charts and you can attribute that to the writings of Pete Sinfield.

BaldJean wrote: what never fails to amaze me is how many people give 5 stars to this album and make bad comments about the second part of "Moonchild". are they aware that this second part constitutes almost a quarter of the album? how can an album of which nearly 25% are bad be a 5 star album?

BaldJean wrote: what never fails to amaze me is how many people give 5 stars to this album and make bad comments about the second part of "Moonchild". are they aware that this second part constitutes almost a quarter of the album? how can an album of which nearly 25% are bad be a 5 star album?

I agree sister, we ain't weighing bananas here that's for sure. There are similar appraisals of ELP's Tarkus based entirely on the suite that appears on side one (of the original vinyl)
That's why your valued appraisal of the first Crimson album is well overdue for submission to the PA database. Collaberators who don't just play into the hands of the site's detractors