Should ProgArchives turn into ProgMusicAr

clarke2001 wrote: Oh, people, c'mooooon!!!! This is a lovely debate, rather than a bitter one. I love you all... Prog-related is not prog. Therefore, we have some non prog-artists here. It's clearly obvious that we have those non-prog artist here for some reason; because their music is somewhat proggy, because they released one or more 100% prog albums, because they're classic rock band with obvious parallels of comparison to prog rock from today's point of view, because the owners know that will attract more people to the web site...   Already the administrators have talked about the requirements, THIS IS A PROG SITE, some bands have been added to Prog Related, a group is OK a group is wrong IMO, but we can live with this, lets keep the site Prog This is, to me, more than a web site. This is a library of prog knowledge, the most comprehensive in the world. And I love to think about prog-related category as a section of some additional information about progressive rock in general. It's knowledge. It's simple as that.   Lets add a literature, a Painting, a games, a politics, a religion, etc forum, it's all knowledge...this is not lñogical, because it's a Prog site not a general music site, there's Allmusic for that. So, let's add all the bands that deserve to be in a PR category! Let's add them now! Let's add them a whole bunch in one afternoon! Talking Heads, Velvet Underground, Television, XTC, PiL, Black Sabbath, Toto, Bowie, Megadeth, Balanescu Quartet, Strangles, Tubes, Who, Miles Davis, Ultravox, Police, Beach Boys, Byrds, Hendrix, Blind Faith, Cream, System Of A Down, Air, Andreas Wollenweider, Future Sound Of London, Grateful Dead, Enigma... Most of this bands mentioned have been checked and rejected, what the hell has Toto or The Police have to do in a Propg site? The answeris absolutely nothing head...There's probably twice as more...three times more...four times more...that is...what? 100 bands What is one hundred bands? Nothing! This web site is listing three thousand  bands, with many more waiting for an approval. That's the problem, when people worry about NO PROG BANDS, the real Prog bands are left behind and that's wrong. What will happen than? Nothing!!! Loosing credibility is important for me, so it will be harmful. Two worst months in the history of the web site will follow, everyone will be reviewing familiar non-prog bands. Just turn off the bloody non-prog reviews from the front page...or locate them on the bottom! And exclude them from the top 100! Problem solved! Will this web site lose credibility? No. I believe we will full-blown prog bands became less worthy? Of course not! That's an absurd comentary, sorry Will this web site remain the best prog  web site? Yes. We are already the best one, why risk this? Will the prog rock fans community be widened, and new forum members introduced? Yes! False, we would loose some of the members who care about real Prog Will this web site gain extra money? Yes. False, many lurkers will come for a while, but many of the real Prog fans, who came to a Prog site because it's Prog will go and those are the faithful ones, the ones who keep this sitre running, the ones who stay here for hours working for nothing and the ones who bring people. And you are arguing about inclusion of The Who or Cream!? 100 bands more. That is hundreds of pages of knowledge more. And that's not everything. Hundreds  of prog bands will be added too, of course. The site will continue to develop. New DT polls will be made. Ronnie will write a new book about prog. People will come and go. Andrea, Igor and co. will continue to add obscure Russian and Italian bands. Sean will review them all.   Knowledge not related with Prog has no place in a Prog site just to keep some fanboys happy seeing their band included in another place.   Iván

clarke2001 wrote: Oh, people, c'mooooon!!!! This is a lovely debate, rather than a bitter one. I love you all... Prog-related is not prog. Therefore, we have some non prog-artists here. It's clearly obvious that we have those non-prog artist here for some reason; because their music is somewhat proggy, because they released one or more 100% prog albums, because they're classic rock band with obvious parallels of comparison to prog rock from today's point of view, because the owners know that will attract more people to the web site... This is, to me, more than a web site. This is a library of prog knowledge, the most comprehensive in the world. And I love to think about prog-related category as a section of some additional information about progressive rock in general. It's knowledge. It's simple as that. So, let's add all the bands that deserve to be in a PR category! Let's add them now! Let's add them a whole bunch in one afternoon! Talking Heads, Velvet Underground, Television, XTC, PiL, Black Sabbath, Toto, Bowie, Megadeth, Balanescu Quartet, Strangles, Tubes, Who, Miles Davis, Ultravox, Police, Beach Boys, Byrds, Hendrix, Blind Faith, Cream, System Of A Down, Air, Andreas Wollenweider, Future Sound Of London, Grateful Dead, Enigma... That's 27 bands, just off the top of my head...There's probably twice as more...three times more...four times more...that is...what? 100 bands. What is one hundred bands? Nothing! This web site is listing three thousand  bands, with many more waiting for an approval. What will happen than? Nothing!!! Two worst months in the history of the web site will follow, everyone will be reviewing familiar non-prog bands. Just turn off the bloody non-prog reviews from the front page...or locate them on the bottom! And exclude them from the top 100! Problem solved! Will this web site lose credibility? No. Will the entries for full-blown prog bands became less worthy? Of course not! Will this web site remain the best prog web site? Yes. Will the prog rock fans community be widened, and new forum members introduced? Yes! Will this web site gain extra money? Yes. And you are arguing about inclusion of The Who or Cream!? 100 bands more. That is hundreds of pages of knowledge more. And that's not everything. Hundreds  of prog bands will be added too, of course. The site will continue to develop. New DT polls will be made. Ronnie will write a new book about prog. People will come and go. Andrea, Igor and co. will continue to add obscure Russian and Italian bands. Sean will review them all. (As for the "ProgRock vs. ProgMusic" and some other issues, in some other post, later, maybe.)

I love it.. and hate it when someone says exactly what I think ...so much better than I ever could

have some clappies

im still pissed off that no one will add the incredible string band into PA. there way more progressive than zeppelllin or iron maiden

Thanks for words, Clarke2001.

P.s.: Without to take not mine merits... The obscure bands/ artists that Andrea Cortese introduces in PA are almost all mine (I understand those of the 70's) because I don't be able to introduce bands/ artists in PA. 


Edited by Mandrakeroot - June 22 2007 at 12:37

honganji wrote: erik neuteboom wrote: When I visited Prog Archives for the first time in January 2004, I was very pleased with the homepage: you had an excellent view on new and interesting prog bands and you could easily switch to more band information. Now, 3,5 years later, the situation is different: the homepage is flooded by lots of non-prog reviews and a review disappears quickly from the homepage because of the huge amount of reviews that are offered to the homepage. And let's not forget that Prog Archives is a commercial site, I notice a huge increasement of adds in comparison with 3 years ago, due to the more 'non-prog friendly musical direction' of Prog Archives, more and more non-prog fans have discovered this site and enjoy reading about bands like Tool and Muse. I think that within a few years the non-prog bands will outnumber the prog bands  ...   Yes, I agree with you. There are too many non-prog albums' reviews ....

To my warning the category Proto Prog is right. Also because it is useful to understand what there it was before the true Prog and that can be considered Prog (at least for what can be worth). And because not to introduce also the  60's production of Manfred Mann? 

For how much it pertains the Prog Related...  I don't know...  I would have used this category for groups like the Asia, Wishbone Ash, ELO, 10cc..  How it is.  But also for those groups Classic Metal...  We say...  Symphonic Metal, those that 7/8 progster on 10 consider Prog Metal.  So how it is structured... excused...  But it does not please me for nothing. 

So I am all right with Erik and honganji.

thellama73 wrote: For those of you who want only bands which are strictly prog rock included, you realize of course that that would mean the removal of all the Krautrock and Progressive Electronic bands, as well as most of the RIO/Avant Prog section. I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to live in a ProgArchives without Tangerine Dream, Amon Düül II, Neu!, Faust, Kraftwerk, Can, Klaus Schulze, Frank Zappa and The Residents.

you can allude the "rock" thing, but it worth in a skeptical way
.
If directed towards the name, the site is still called Prog Archives (actually Erik himself asked a difference from Prog Archives...)

Thing is the progressive standards allows a valorous conception, expansion, a "large" window into its art and its reflection, as to not imply the strictness that it's so feared.

In fact, though I payed kind of little attention to this thread, I have absolutely no idea how a change of name triggered great grave seeming discussion such as "is prog rock too strict", "is prog rock too un-allowed", "is prog rock something at all", or have triggered the usual conversations about bands that should be included (with a healthy Prog Related or Prog-imaginary appetite) or even to detonate and wipe off entire sections of already approved and consolidated, certified and well-adapted progressive rock movements.

Out of interest, you've mentioned quite few bands that can do rock.
Krautrock is a massive psych rock movement, mainly in Germany, expressing the "acid", "experiment", "collapsing", "voidal" and "shattering" nuances. Half of the classic music is 'rock" in a dementia form.

Tangerine Dream, from classic to the cheesy recent ambiances, do some "rock" by Froese's guitar work. Neu! is right under rock jam, I just listened to them and am totally impressed by the "rock" in their vein. Amon Duul, when trying out popular music, make "rock" nuances.

Yes progressive electronic is tricky under "rock" and the specialists try to not avoid much of the 'rock" possible significance. But otherwise, the definitions state some influences coming from the electronization of kraut movements, of space rock, the Berlin School contains grains of rock and classic such sessions etc. etc. etc.

And about RIO and avant, this is a music orientation certified in almost every progressive rock page; how would it be possible to deny its movement importance?

vingaton wrote: russellk said   "So, personally, no need to change anything. I am enjoying the way the site is developing."   Here here!  well put!  Wish I had said it!   V

Edited by Peter - June 22 2007 at 10:45

For those of you who want only bands which are strictly prog rock included, you realize of course that that would mean the removal of all the Krautrock and Progressive Electronic bands, as well as most of the RIO/Avant Prog section.
I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to live in a ProgArchives without Tangerine Dream, Amon Düül II, Neu!, Faust, Kraftwerk, Can, Klaus Schulze, Frank Zappa and The Residents.

I am very glad with the huge feedback until so far  and the reactions are almost "where opposites meet", the one calls my abovementioned statement too melodramatic, the other agrees completely, this epitomizes the very different views and opinions on the subject of this thread and I am sure we will go through a hell lot of emotion the forthcoming years because of the subjective views and opinons about new additions that border between prog, pop, hardrock and rock, I hope to welcome The Tubes and The Stranglers and THE JIMI HENDRIX EXPERIENCE, "time in on my side "!

erik neuteboom wrote: When I visited Prog Archives for the first time in January 2004, I was very pleased with the homepage: you had an excellent view on new and interesting prog bands and you could easily switch to more band information. Now, 3,5 years later, the situation is different: the homepage is flooded by lots of non-prog reviews and a review disappears quickly from the homepage because of the huge amount of reviews that are offered to the homepage. And let's not forget that Prog Archives is a commercial site, I notice a huge increasement of adds in comparison with 3 years ago, due to the more 'non-prog friendly musical direction' of Prog Archives, more and more non-prog fans have discovered this site and enjoy reading about bands like Tool and Muse. I think that within a few years the non-prog bands will outnumber the prog bands  ...