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the musical box 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 01 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 436
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 Posted: January 19 2005 at 08:26 |
 Rob The Plant wrote:
the musical box wrote:
The point isnt wether we love or hate Radiohead...its just that with their inclusion, i believe the site will now struggle to set certain bounderies on" what is and isnt prog". Of cource there are no set bounderies (if we consider bands like Tool or Styx), but this is also going to make things alot harder for the admins in perticular...but it seems that the admins have taken their stand and they are here to stay...and as hard as that is for me...i can accept that. As creator of the thread:
THE END
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If Porcupine Tree is Prog, then so is Tool. Tool is prog man, you just don't like it. So maybe your opinion on Radiohead is biased as well.
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I didnt say that Tool werent Prog....
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something pretentious
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Jim Prog Wizard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 23 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134
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Posted: January 19 2005 at 07:43 |
Radiohead may be constantly progressing, but then so are a multitude of bands in metal, world music, post-rock and even drum & bass. Do these bands also warrant inclusion on the archives?
"Prog" is distinct from progressing.
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"Progressive Rock is the ultimate form of music" (Mikael Akerfeldt, 2003)
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: January 19 2005 at 07:22 |
Useful_Idiot wrote:
Listen to Paranoid Android, Like Spinning Plates, Pyramid Song (which has probably the weirdest time signature I've ever heard). Is this the kind of stuff a serious prog site would deal with? Yes |
Not to mention 'exit music for a film' and 'lucky', both of which stand up favourably among some of the more established progressive rock standards ('exit music' especially).
I have to admit, apart from The Bends, and OK Computer, I am not a fan of Radiohead, but in my opinion, they do qualify for inclusion on the Archive as they are genuinely progressing, constantly experimenting, and never resting on their laurels - OK, we may not always like the result, but at leaxst Radiohead could never be called 'stale'. In my opinion, they are one of the few truy progressive (using its literal meaning) rock bands around today.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: January 19 2005 at 05:39 |
I think it's important not to confuse "popular" with "pop music".
I also think that there is a real depth to Thom's minimalist lyrics - every time I read them as I listen to the music, the music paints colours into the words which tells a story that is hard to translate, but you feel in your subconscious. THAT is progressive 
Edited by Certif1ed
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 21:39 |
Lunarscape wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Don't panic Arteum, there's often an initial rush of reviews when new bands are added, especially ones which have enjoyed some commercial success. Things will settle down again though.
Interesting to note a lack of Roxy Music reviews though, not a single one yet!
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Dont worry, the RH rush will fade and within short time they will be forgotten. The reason that they are here in the first place is purely comercial. As an MTV backed up band, they do atract some attention to the juvenile listeners, lets say like Back Street Boys with mellotrons ! Why they shouldnt be listed ; Their vocals are lousy, Pshycodelic Furs had better vocals, the depressing undertone in these vocals are at the best; annoying. The lyrics are dreadful a pop clichés far to boring to dissect. Now as for instrumentation; The drumming is, again, boring and repetitive played without any imagination or passion. Bass lines ? no way ! The guitar playing is, humm lets say, burocratic and yes...efficient enough to call attention to the less experienced listener. Keyboards; Move over Wakeman, Emmerson, Van Leer, Vangelis, your new master is here to teach you guys how to make refined and superb music !
Listen to Airbag, Idiotique, Creep and I Might be Wrong and tell me if this is the stuff a serious Prog site would deal with ? |
Listen to Paranoid Android, Like Spinning Plates, Pyramid Song (which has probably the weirdest time signature I've ever heard). Is this the kind of stuff a serious prog site would deal with? Yes!
If you honestly think the vocals are bad, try to sing with half the emotion (not to mention the fantastic range) that Thom puts into his voice. Since when does the quality of a band's lyrics dictate how prog they are? ELP has written some of the most cringeworthy lyrics I've ever seen, but no one has any problem considering them prog. They have some very complex drum parts (listen to the title track from Kid A, or as I mentioned previously, Pyramid Song), some outstanding basslines (Airbag, Myxoatosis), some incredible guitar work (If the soloing in Paranoid Android doesn't qualify as impressive, we might as well just never bother listening to music with guitar). Just becuase they don't insist on clogging up their albums with bloated, meandering keyboard solos, doesn't mean they aren't prog. Again, just because they're not a keyboard based band, doesn't mean they're not prog.
They've been going strong for more than 10 years, and are only getting more and more popular as time goes on, so I think that to say they're a fad being backed by MTV is ridiculous (especially considering they made a point not to release any singles for Kid A, and considering MTV is pretty much branding them as "uncool" now that they've moved on to a higher form of art).
Edited by Useful_Idiot
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:54 |
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50/50 now. very interesting!
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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Rob The Plant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:53 |
the musical box wrote:
The point isnt wether we love or hate Radiohead...its just that with their inclusion, i believe the site will now struggle to set certain bounderies on" what is and isnt prog". Of cource there are no set bounderies (if we consider bands like Tool or Styx), but this is also going to make things alot harder for the admins in perticular...but it seems that the admins have taken their stand and they are here to stay...and as hard as that is for me...i can accept that. As creator of the thread:
THE END
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If Porcupine Tree is Prog, then so is Tool. Tool is prog man, you just don't like it. So maybe your opinion on Radiohead is biased as well.
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Collaborators will take your soul.
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Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:47 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Don't panic Arteum, there's often an initial rush of reviews when new bands are added, especially ones which have enjoyed some commercial success. Things will settle down again though.
Interesting to note a lack of Roxy Music reviews though, not a single one yet!
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Dont worry, the RH rush will fade and within short time they will be forgotten. The reason that they are here in the first place is purely comercial. As an MTV backed up band, they do atract some attention to the juvenile listeners, lets say like Back Street Boys with mellotrons ! Why they shouldnt be listed ; Their vocals are lousy, Pshycodelic Furs had better vocals, the depressing undertone in these vocals are at the best; annoying. The lyrics are dreadful a pop clichés far to boring to dissect. Now as for instrumentation; The drumming is, again, boring and repetitive played without any imagination or passion. Bass lines ? no way ! The guitar playing is, humm lets say, burocratic and yes...efficient enough to call attention to the less experienced listener. Keyboards; Move over Wakeman, Emmerson, Van Leer, Vangelis, your new master is here to teach you guys how to make refined and superb music !
Listen to Airbag, Idiotique, Creep and I Might be Wrong and tell me if this is the stuff a serious Prog site would deal with ?
____________
Lunar 
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Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:23 |
Arteum wrote:
> How is Porcupine Tree being in here a good thing, but RH being in here negative? Steve Wilson has said that Stupid Dream was very much influenced by Radiohead...
Hmm, maybe that's why I don't particularly like "Stupid Dream"? I mentioned PORCUPINE TREE only because of "The Sky Moves Sideways", "Signify" and "In Absentia".
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I've always thought that The Sky Moves Sideways had kind of an ambient, somewhat electronic vibe not unlike what Radiohead has going on Kid A, although that could just be me...
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Arteum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:12 |
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> How is Porcupine Tree being in here a good thing, but RH being in here
negative? Steve Wilson has said that Stupid Dream was very much
influenced by Radiohead...
Hmm, maybe that's why I don't particularly like "Stupid Dream"? I
mentioned PORCUPINE TREE only because of "The Sky Moves Sideways",
"Signify" and "In Absentia".
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:04 |
Arteum wrote:
Progarchives has been my favourite website for the last year. I faithfully visit it every day and I thank it for helping me to discover ÄNGLAGÅRD, MARILLION, PAIN OF SALVATION, OZRIC TENTACLES, VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR, PORCUPINE TREE, ARENA and others. I was always thinking this site was a clean place, but with the introduction of RADIOHEAD, it is beginning to stink.  I am scared to think that I can recommend this site to my prog-loving friends, and the first few reviews on the title page that they will see will be those of RADIOHEAD's albums.  |
How is Porcupine Tree being in here a good thing, but RH being in here negative? Steve Wilson has said that Stupid Dream was very much influenced by Radiohead...
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Eddy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2004
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 637
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 20:03 |
pink floyd is listened too by all the clics in my school. your cooler if you listen to pink floyd. unfortunally, when i try to get them deeper into prog, they run away! its kinda sad. i know people who listen to pink floyd evenb though they dont liker the music.
now radiohead. i dont even think they think themselves as progressive rock, therefore, why let them have tthe honor of being on this website!
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Arteum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 19:54 |
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Now I understand why there are people who think that RADIOHEAD is prog.
As everybody else, I was asked many times what music I was listening
to. I remember two or three occasions when my natural reply
"Progressive rock" produced the next question: "Oh, it's like
RADIOHEAD?"
After talking to the people who thought that RADIOHEAD was prog, it became obvious that they:
a) Confused GENESIS with PHIL COLLINS
b) Thought that PINK FLOYD was a 'cool' group whose songs they like to listen on the radio
c) Never heard of 99.7% (I think that's a good estimation) of artists listed on progarchives.com
d) Typically included in their greatest musical interests U2, CHEMICAL
BROTHERS, RAMMSTEIN, METALLICA, OASIS and other bands of this type
Why is RADIOHEAD listened to by people who think that PINK FLOYD is a 'cool' pop group?
Edited by Arteum
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 18:09 |
^ I was only counting U2, The Pretenders, and Guy....yeah, right! 
Edited by James Lee
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Beau Heem
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 227
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 17:43 |
James Lee wrote:
2005 inductees in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame:
Buddy Guy (blues)
Percy Sledge (soul)
The O'Jays (motown)
The Pretenders (new wave...but they could rock from time to time, so OK on that one)
U2 (ditto above, with less emphasis)
Now, given the fact that only 2 out of 3 are even remotely rock and roll... |
Out of three?
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--No enemy but time--
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 17:38 |
2005 inductees in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame:
Buddy Guy (blues)
Percy Sledge (soul)
The O'Jays (motown)
The Pretenders (new wave...but they could rock from time to time, so OK on that one)
U2 (ditto above, with less emphasis)
Now, given the fact that only 2 out of 3 are even remotely rock and roll...doesn't if feel kinda silly to argue whether RH is prog or not?
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 17:19 |
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But... they aren't going to be!
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asuma
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 23 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 16:46 |
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i vote that they should be taken off the site.
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*Remember all advice given by Asuma is for entertainment purposes only. Asuma is not a licensed medical doctor, psychologist, or counselor and he does not play one on TV.*
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 16:34 |
Don't panic Arteum, there's often an initial rush of reviews when new bands are added, especially ones which have enjoyed some commercial success. Things will settle down again though.
Interesting to note a lack of Roxy Music reviews though, not a single one yet!
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Arteum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 15:54 |
Progarchives has been my favourite website for the last year. I
faithfully visit it every day and I thank it for helping me to discover
ÄNGLAGÅRD, MARILLION, PAIN OF SALVATION, OZRIC TENTACLES, VAN DER GRAAF
GENERATOR, PORCUPINE TREE, ARENA and others. I was always thinking this
site was a clean place, but with the introduction of RADIOHEAD, it is
beginning to stink. I am scared to
think that I can recommend this site to my prog-loving friends, and the
first few reviews on the title page that they will see will be those of
RADIOHEAD's albums.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Petition to take Radiohead off Progarchi
