Yes Vs Genesis

Micky wrote:

it's not like those on the Yes side of this question are any more Genesis haters.  Personally I love the group. Just some things are well known, Genesis was thought of (by themselves) as a rather boring group. Hense the costumes and the stage show.

Genesis considered a boring group for their costumes????

Do you really know what you're talking about?

The costumes and the stories are a visual aid to understand the Genesis lyrics which are really complex and make sense.

It all started because between the songs (And having Genesis only one set of instruments at the beginning of their careers) there was a long period of silence while Genesis members were tuning their instruments, so Peter started to tell stories to keep the attention of the audience during those embarrasisng minutes of silence.

The costumes was a Peter Gabriel thing, to complement the stories, each costume is related to the lyrics of a song.

Phil Collins said clearly that all Genesis members hated those costumes because Peter distracted the audience from the music and because due to the masks he could hardly keep a microphone near to his mouth.

Peter still rises from the basement in telephone booths, ends his concerts with something like a UFO, rides bike while singing Solsbury Hills, uses electric light coats while singing Sledgehammer, etc.

That's the way he feels his concerts, he's a complete artist and probably a theater actor wannabe, I can't assure that but Threefates who talked with him told this on a forum.

Peter Gabriel was not the only Prog' musician with such eccentric behaviour

• Wakeman made A Myth and Legends Concert on the ice. with skaters and everything, this is cheesy.!!!
• Emerson played on flying pianos and stabbed that poor old little organ.
• Fish used costumes,
• Pink Floyd show was almost as important as their music, including the films and flying pigs and/or beds.
• The Wall in Berlin is the most expensive extravaganza in history.
• Jean Michel Jarre's show is a combination of theater, movies and music
• Hawkwind had a naked dancer (Stacia) during their shows.

So according to your criteria each mentioned band or musician considered their music boring, please, this is absurd.

This has no relation with their music being boring, this means some Prog Musicians believe their music is not only an auditive but also a visual form of art.

Iván

micky wrote: Syntharachnid wrote: micky wrote: NouSomesduSolei wrote: I can't believe the amount of Yes "haters" on here. I completely love Genesis, they are the only prog rock band that you could argue is better then Yes. But Genesis is not better than Yes. Some of the people that have commented on this topic have made just stupid points. Saying that Anderson and Yes are emotionless is just rediculas. These people obviously never have sat at a Yes Show while Howe is sitting with the slide guitar and anderson pouring his heart into "soon".  On the contrary to what most of the people say I think Yes music is more emotional. This is shown by the amazing solos. As far as musicianship, Genesis doesnt hold a candle to Yes.  But im not going to just bable on, obvisously everyone has a good music taste if were argueing about this. Thanks,Mike nice post! Agreed!  Stunning debut NouSomes!  And for the record, there really aren't that many Yes bashers around here.  It's just all coming out in this one thread. it's not like those on the Yes side of this question are any more Genesis haters.  Personally I love the group. Just some things are well known, Genesis was thought of (by themselves) as a rather boring group. Hense the costumes and the stage show.  They were not the instrumentalists that Yes were.  The music is first rate, it's great stuff, but Yes did it as well (or better) for longer and without a doubt IMO  were the benchmark of 70's prog....err... prog period.

Assuming King Crimson didn't exist.

Stonebeard wrote:

still don't get that argument. I believe sooner or later another band would have come along and have the same effect on future generations.

But would not have been the Neo Prog we know today, I'm sure that Marillion, Arena or Pendragon would have never existed or reached success without Genesis influence,please it's the base of their sound!!!!!

Stonebeard wrote:

From what I've heard of Banks, all Genesis abums from Nursury Cryme to Wing and Wuthering at least, I think he is a great keyboardist but only stands at that..

Everybody is entitled to his own opinion, if you think that the most influential keyboardist of Prog'  si not a virtuoso, OK you can believe it.

Stonebeard wrote: [quote] I have never heard any solo albums from either Howe or Hackett, so I can not bring up an argument on that subject. Based soley on core Yes output and core Genesis output, I still think Howe is better. But then again, Hackett never really got a chance to shine..[/quote]

Then how can you say wuith such a scurity that no Genesis member is a virtuoso musician?

But you make my point, Genesis musicians worked for the band, they were virtuoso players but sacrificed their personal pride for the music, so if you admit Steve Hackett never had the chance to shine, how can you talk about his lack of virtuosity

Stonebeard wrote: [quote] Eh, yeah, I suppose (based soley on Phil's Genesis career)[/quote]

What about Brand X?

Iván

NouSomesduSolei wrote: I can't believe the amount of Yes "haters" on here. I completely love Genesis, they are the only prog rock band that you could argue is better then Yes. But Genesis is not better than Yes. Some of the people that have commented on this topic have made just stupid points. Saying that Anderson and Yes are emotionless is just rediculas. These people obviously never have sat at a Yes Show while Howe is sitting with the slide guitar and anderson pouring his heart into "soon".  On the contrary to what most of the people say I think Yes music is more emotional. This is shown by the amazing solos. As far as musicianship, Genesis doesnt hold a candle to Yes.  But im not going to just bable on, obvisously everyone has a good music taste if were argueing about this. Thanks,Mike

You can definitely argue King Crimson>Yes.

ivan_2068 wrote: stonebeard wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Stonebeard wrote: Nobody from Genesis was a virtuoso What about Steve Hackett? Tony Banks, a brilliant performer and better wongwritter than any Yes member? Stonebeard wrote: Each had their silly-but-brilliant songs ("I've Seen All Good People," "Return if the Giant Hogweed") Giant Hogweed silly????? Have you listened the lyrics and read history? Peter Gabriel is IMO the best lyricist ever, nobody could tell complete stories that made sense of almost about anything. No Yes lyric makes sense, except maybe Don't Kill the Whale which is not one of their most inspired songs. Stonebeard wrote: As for overall relevance, Yes wins hands down I haven't heard of any Prog band except Genesis that has been the fundamental base of any Prog Sub-genre. Without Genesis there's no Neo Prog. And about playing together yet, that's not relevance, that's enduring, but Rolling Stones lasted longer, so what does that mean? Iván   Listen, Ivan. I know you're biased towards Genesis. I love both bands and I stil contend that Yes is better, on a musical level and on an emotional level. OK, I meant endurance, not relevance. Yes has endured longer than Genesis and is still making good albums. In terms of actual relevance, Genesis may win that one. I cannot believe people can say that without this band, there would be no so-and-so. In the case of Marillion, Genesis was an influence, but I believe the band had enough other influences to still exist and make similar music. I really don't believe that a movement like Neo Prog would have existed as we know it without Genesis as Prog' would never existed as we know it without the (non Prog') influence of The Beatles. I still don't get that argument. I believe sooner or later another band would have come along and have the same effect on future generations. I'm not talking about Marillion, I really find many Neo Prog' bands that sound even closer to Genesis i than Marillion including Pendragon, the birth of Neo Prog was based mostly in the peculiar sound and style of the "Non vuirtuoso" (in your words), Tony Banks. From what I've heard of Banks, all Genesis abums from Nursury Cryme to Wing and Wuthering at least, I think he is a great keyboardist but only stands at that. What I can't believe is that some people try to deny the quality and virtuosism of Genesis musicians to prove how great Yes was: I'm not really trying to disprove the talent of Genesis musicians for my argument. I simply don't think they're virtuosic. Steve Hackett is at least in thesame level of Steve Howe, with the difference that he has better solo career (in quality and number) than Steve Howe. I have never heard any solo albums from either Howe or Hackett, so I can not bring up an argument on that subject. Based soley on core Yes output and core Genesis output, I still think Howe is better. But then again, Hackett never really got a chance to shine... Tony Banks is a virtuoso keyboardist, maybe he's not spectacular and a showman, but his style is solid (As his classical formation) and he's far a better composer than any other keyboardist in the market. He doesn't have a solid solo career, but no Yes keyboardist created so much music for their band than Tony Banks did for Genesis. I'm a fan but not blind I always said that Rutherford is not in the level of Squire and that Peter Gabriel doesn't have the most natural gifted voice (Even when he's one of the greatest vocalist despite that problem with the high ranges). I always stated that Bruford is one of my favorite drummers (Behind Phil Ehart) but Phil Collins is right there, it's only a matter of personal tastes. Eh, yeah, I suppose (based soley on Phil's Genesis career) So, I would never sat Yes are a bunch of untaleted guys, because even though is not among my top 10 artists, I recognize is a great band and made a lot of great music. Iván

Since much of Yes's music relies on Anderson's vocals, I bet this is a major factor in why you don't like them as much as I do.

Yes!!!

Genesis was a great band, who made some extremely good records in the 70-ties.

But Yes is still here, and epics like CTTE/Relayer/Awaken have NEVER been matched, not by any band, ever. But that ofcourse is imho.