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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11700
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 14:36 |
emigre80 wrote:
Cailyn wrote:
The language issue I get. For the record, what is the language spoken in Tomorrowland?
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LOL I did say why I thought DSOTM was overrated. All I got in return was doubts cast upon my motives, my character and my judgment. This doesn't encourage discussion. |
I normally speak the same language as these so its no wonder I come across as uncivil at times.
I do believe I was more "generally insulting" but I'll admit it was intentional (and honest) - and got personal insults back. I don't mind. I was kind of asking for it. But I guess this bickering doesn't make an interesting read for anyone. emigre80 however has done nothing but elegantly defended his right to write his opinion even if Dean & the gang disapproves of it.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 14:28 |
emigre80 wrote:
Cailyn wrote:
The language issue I get. For the record, what is the language spoken in Tomorrowland?
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LOL I did say why I thought DSOTM was overrated. All I got in return was doubts cast upon my motives, my character and my judgment. This doesn't encourage discussion. |
Did they really?
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What?
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 14:06 |
^ so now the topic has morphed into which is the most overacted album? I sometimes have trouble keeping up.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 14:02 |
This poll is overacted.
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 3167
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 14:00 |
If a band gets voted as having the most overrated album, is their album still the most overrated?
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 13:55 |
Cailyn wrote:
The language issue I get. For the record, what is the language spoken in Tomorrowland?
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LOL I did say why I thought DSOTM was overrated. All I got in return was doubts cast upon my motives, my character and my judgment. This doesn't encourage discussion.
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Cailyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 120
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 13:46 |
The language issue I get. For the record, what is the language spoken in Tomorrowland?
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http://www.cailynmusic.com
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11700
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 12:36 |
^ Many wrote why they considered this or that album to be overrated as well but the naysayers still wouldn't have any of it.
Also people are different. Some enjoy a discussion others prefer to just rate, vote, write the name of the album they like or dislike and leave. I say let them. Many have language barriers. I probably have to invest a lot more time for each post than someone with english as their first language.
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Cailyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2014
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 120
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 12:17 |
The problem with calling something overrated is that the statement itself says nothing and imparts no useful information beyond a subjective opinion. What would be far more useful and would also make this site more informative is a paragraph on why you think such and such an album is overrated/mediocre or whatever. That could start a meaningful conversation on the music instead of degenerating into the loss of civility that this thread and threads like it tend to display.
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http://www.cailynmusic.com
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11700
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 11:56 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that. | I always wonder at the sort of person who considers objectivity to be a negative. | Keep wondering because I never said I did. Do you consider your own opinion on these albums to be objective? |
I can see strengths and weaknesses in each album. I can also see why some of the albums listed, ItCotCK and Foxtrot in particular, are not considered masterpieces by reviewers universally. For instance, I certainly can understand when critics and listeners in general deride King Crimson for the unnecessarily laborious and lengthy tinkling of "Moonchild"; however, that does not detract from the album from an historical perspective or the overriding belief that ItCotCK was the primal progressive album. |
I'm well aware of this historical perspective - I wouldn't be surprise if most PA members are. So I don't think this makes your opinions any more or less objective than the rest of us. Anyway I happen to love ItCotCK from start to finish - even Moonchild Part II The Illusion But if I thought it had an undeserved position at PA or in rockhistory and overshadowed other, more deserving albums I don't see any problem claiming it to be overrated and those other albums underrated.
I actually do think ItCotCK is a underrated (which I have come to understand is just as bad term) album - outside of PA. Its rarely represented among the 100 most influential or best albums ever and I think it should be. Its not very important to me nor is this poll, but I can't see any harm in these labels. Infact consider them useful.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13065
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 11:13 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that. | I always wonder at the sort of person who considers objectivity to be a negative. | Keep wondering because I never said I did. Do you consider your own opinion on these albums to be objective? |
I can see strengths and weaknesses in each album. I can also see why some of the albums listed, ItCotCK and Foxtrot in particular, are not considered masterpieces by reviewers universally. For instance, I certainly can understand when critics and listeners in general deride King Crimson for the unnecessarily laborious and lengthy tinkling of "Moonchild"; however, that does not detract from the album from an historical perspective or the overriding belief that ItCotCK was the primal progressive album.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11700
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 11:08 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
For me calling an album overrated is coming across like a complete a****le |
We are obviously very different then. I think its totally ok.
Wish You Were Here is overrated, those new Steven Wilson albums are overrated, Rumors is overrated, Pet Sounds is overrated, The Queen is Dead is overrated... I can't even understand the problem.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:59 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
I certainly do understand your point of view, however, which is why it might make sense to avoid any thread with "overrated" in the title, just as I avoid any thread with "tv show" in the title, because I know in advance I couldn't possibly care less. This seems to be a concept that sets you off, and life is far too short to court needless irritation.
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No, it's not the same.
I avoid any thread with the name Gentle Giant on it, because I don't like Gentle Giant, but there are many people who love this band and i can't do nothing else but respect their taste despite my disagreement, on the other hand, would be wrong to say "All the Gentle Giant fans are idiots because they rate this mediocre band so high".
But the word overrated implies
1.- Most people love this album/band, so they rate it high. 2.- I hate this band album, so I rate it low. (Up to this point is OK) 3.- The rating is wrong, my rating is right 4.- I'm right, all of them are wrong because In say it.
So you are criticizing everybody else's opinion.
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This is basically what people do all the time. What's the problem? Do we really have to tell the world that its our subjective opinion every time we have one? If you tell Gentle Giant-fans that you don't enjoy their music and why instead of coming across like a complete a****le, you'll be alright (and entitled to your opinion). |
For me calling an album overrated is coming across like a complete a****le
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11700
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:57 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that. | I always wonder at the sort of person who considers objectivity to be a negative. |
Keep wondering because I never said I did. Do you consider your own opinion on these albums to be objective?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:53 |
Of course...In the Pop genre, he received the consideration he deserved, even when I hate his music.
Please pal control your manners, I haven't insulted you, so don't insult me.
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 13 2015 at 10:56
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13065
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:50 |
emigre80 wrote:
Follix wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
I agree with your assessment of the Wall, but besides Comfortably Numb, what is the other song on it you rate more highly? |
Hey You I find the intro particularly hypnotizing but I agree that Comfortably Numb is easily the best song on the album.
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Those are the only two songs I like as well.
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I like several songs from The Wall. Offhand, I think "Mother" and "Goodbye Blue Sky" are fantastic, as are "Comfortably Numb" and "Run Like Hell"; but I think the oratory and incidental music drags in some sections and gets far too Watersian, which is how I feel about Gabriel and The Lamb. A common occurrence when a musical idea is stretched over two albums. That is not say that there isn't any transcendent work on either album, there certainly is.
Saperlipopette! wrote:
What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that. | I always wonder at the sort of person who considers objectivity to be a negative.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 11700
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:42 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
I will reply to whichever thread I choose, with or without a 'by your leave' from you, sir and/or madam. If the topic is asinine, I will remark so. I am not striving for some sort of moral superiority, I am merely questioning a few posters' objectivity, or the lack thereof.
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What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:28 |
Follix wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
I agree with your assessment of the Wall, but besides Comfortably Numb, what is the other song on it you rate more highly? |
Hey You I find the intro particularly hypnotizing but I agree that Comfortably Numb is easily the best song on the album.
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Those are the only two songs I like as well.
Edited by emigre80 - September 13 2015 at 10:28
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13065
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:28 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
^I'm tired of reading all these pompous "I just dropped in to let you know that my moral standards are too high to take part in this discussion - except for telling you that I won't have any part in it".
I didn't start the name calling and labeling and I do think "your" contributions here are as predictably boring as they are unnecessary. How hard is it to just leave these kind of topics alone to those of us with questionable moral standards? |
I will reply to whichever thread I choose, with or without a 'by your leave' from you, sir and/or madam. If the topic is asinine, I will remark so. I am not striving for some sort of moral superiority, I am merely questioning a few posters' objectivity, or the lack thereof. In regards to your recent contributions, let's just say you're more fit to follow circus animals with a broom and shovel. Consider being a carnie; the big top needs you.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:27 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
^I'm tired of reading all these pompous "I just dropped in to let you know that my moral standards are too high to take part in this discussion - except for telling you that I won't have any part in it". I didn't start the name calling and labeling and I do think "your" contributions here are as predictably boring as they are unnecessary. How hard is it to just leave these kind of topics alone to those of us with questionable moral standards?
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I'm still disputing the concept that participating in this thread identifies me as someone possessing questionable moral standards but otherwise I find myself in sympathy with this comment.
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