Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Posted: April 09 2013 at 22:57
@Dean, and for the umpteenth time: I do not abuse rating manipulation. My own listening experience is that Octopus is a crap album. Okay? Go to Amazon; there are at least a handful of reviews there from GENTLE GIANT FANS, discouraging consumers from purchasing Octopus because IT SUCKS.
I'll also have you know that I'll address you any which way I want, "full quoting capability" or not.
Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
Posted: April 09 2013 at 21:48
Read his Octopus review; some of his arguments sound like something Robert Christgau or Dave Marsh would have mentioned, particularly "Raconteur Troubadour", which echoes the latter's sentiments that Queen were fascists because of "We Will Rock You".
In Tubes' defense:
1. As much as I like "Dog's Life", dedicating it to their roadies was very tacky on their part.
2. "Minstrel In The Gallery" is lyrically better than "Raconteur Troubadour". In fact, Jethro Tull usually had better lyrics than Gentle Giant.
Edited by KingCrInuYasha - April 09 2013 at 21:54
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: April 09 2013 at 13:04
Tubes wrote:
@infocat Octopus and The Missing Piece were the first GG albums I ever purchased. Bought 'em at face value. Boy, did I ever learn a lesson there...
Apparently not, since you then went on to buy Free Hand and it seems you have been looking at Acquiring The Taste. After three albums the sensible conclusion would be to accept that Gentle Giant are not for you and to move on.
In case you missed it in the other thread - your latest Octopus review needs editing, please learn how to do that before continuing (just as it would be advantageous if you could learn how to quote - this is not twitter or youtoob, it's a forum with full quoting capability and practically unlimited post length).
Please be informed that we do not encourage or condone deliberate rating manipulation - the rating you give an album must be your fair and honest assessment of the album, not a deliberate low score designed solely to lower the average.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: April 09 2013 at 11:03
@Davenkirq
While both those points are well taken, I don't think the presence of a consensus necessarily acts as a barrier against a low rating. What is a consensus on the PA database anyway other than the averaged out score of a no. of ratings? Free Hand has 776 ratings and its average score of 4.25 is pretty impressive but SEBTP fetches 4.62 over 2376 ratings, so that's a much bigger sample. A consensus opinion is also not set in stone; it can change as tastes change. I find that I am not the only one on PA who dislikes Hotel California but not only was it was a big hit in its day, it was hailed as an all time guitar classic. Maybe it will continue to be for some more time, but I smell hints that the tide is turning and eulogies in praise of this song are not quite as effusive as they used to be when I was growing up.
In a nutshell, there is room for a contrary opinion on any album, even a highly rated one from the 70s like Free Hand. I look forward to such reviews - especially when they are talked up so much like this one - to learn anything that I missed in my experience of the album (not matter how much I like it, as in this case). In this review, I found an opinion...and that's all. No reasons to make a case that maybe there was some aspect of the album that I had completely missed out over the last few years that I've had and listened to this album.
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4095
Posted: April 09 2013 at 11:02
MustardSea wrote:
Tubes wrote:
@MustardSea I'm not complaining about it having a very 70's sound, but I do mention because some people might not like that. Oh, and guess what Close to the Edge is structured like a pop song. Before hearing that masterpiece, had you ever known such a long song that was truly worth every second of its duration? You better not answer that. Close to the Edge is based on a piece of religious fiction, at least - not some f**king Boy Scout rope-tying manual, or psychological text, however it works out to relate to R. D. Laing. My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots.
You sound like a real charming human being. I mean, seriously, you seem to hate Knots so much I wonder if you got raped by it?! Haha what's wrong with you?
He sounds like a religious freak living in his own private Iowa hard to be anything in Iowa---except a big fish in a small pond and we at prog archives have given him all the attention he craves.
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
Posted: April 09 2013 at 10:52
rogerthat wrote:
... it is rare for the consensus on classics to be challenged.
A very good point you've made right there. I think there are two questions you should ask yourself: what is the general consensus and why. Something to do before you write your own review - read other people's reviews on the album.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: April 09 2013 at 10:43
He is entitled to his opinion. And so I am to the opinion that it is a pretty poor review with very little analysis of the music and more of a laundry list of reasons to dislike the album. Very little justification offered also for exactly how Gentle Giant were a band that were never bent on defying stagnant music conventions. Yeah, I suppose blues rock is full of atonal, dissonant guitar solos, so stagnant (the track I speak of, by the way, is The House, The Street, The Room). That, and several other bold statements that come and go without reasoning offered to support them. If he can actually make the effort to do that, I would be very much interested to read because it is rare for the consensus on classics to be challenged.
Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
Posted: April 09 2013 at 09:53
Tubes wrote:
@dennismoore You realize that you're talking about eugenics, there, man? You know like man playing with himself, playing God. LOL Either way, that's a pretty offensive thing to say, ie. that I have a 'stupidity gene' (did you come up with that all by yourself? You are SO clever). I'm reporting you, period.
My dear lad:
You must learn to govern your passions, they will be your undoing.
I was just having a spot of fun. But you must realise that if you choose a well regarded classic and trash it in a review you are going to get a lot of attention.
For me, I can't stand Gentle Giant's 1st 3 CDs, then their brilliant keyboard player, Kerry Minnear, took over arrranging duties and made magic out of all that chaos all the other lads were causing and we got Octopus, Power & Glory
& Freehand. 3 masterpieces. Mind you it is not soft/harmonic/symphonic prog... Kerry Minear is one of the true unsung prog keyboardist AND writer/arranger masters IMHO.
Ok, Free Hand & Octopus aren't your cup of tea. What prog CDs do you like and why?
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
Posted: April 08 2013 at 11:26
Expensive as in it was the most expensive album for Gentle Giant to make or as in the most expensive album of theirs to purchase? If the latter, I find it hard to believe, since, a few years ago, I ordered and bought a new copy of the CD at my local record store for less than 10 bucks.
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Free Hand - a 1* album
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dennismoore wrote:
hard to be anything in Iowa---except a big fish in a small pond
But you must realise that if you choose a well regarded classic and trash it in a review you are going to get a lot of attention. 
