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Topic ClosedProgressive ! Is It meant to be a Males Mania ?
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 06:35
Originally posted by trackstoni trackstoni wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Please close this thread.
 

   And Why is that !  just Ignore it if you don't like it , these Threads doesn't belong to you Epig , so respect others Opinion , otherwise , if there's anything against  this site policy , just close it yourself or send me a message , telling me why , and I will !   Wink   have a nice day !


This thread in some form or another has been opened multiple times.  A recent thread on poetry was closed because a poetry thread already exists.  This thread is redundant.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 06:34
It's almost disturbing to me as to why there are not more female instrumentalists releasing progressive music to the world. The female population of serious musicians has always seemed to jump on board with prog men. For example.....A band like Art Zoyd would have a female in the ranks........People might be curious? Who is the girl? or the lady?.....I like the whole band, but who is the girl? I mean doesn't that just anger you? Okay whoever she is ....she must be an outlander or an invader. Women are treated like that in prog. How do the members of ART ZOYD feel about Patricia Dallio? It's just all frustrating......the world's image of a woman taken seriously in music. A woman who does not sing for a living. Or sing and play piano. Norri Bucci plays a jazz/fusion guitar style, rock guitar, and acoustic work. She has an instrumental piece she performs live on youtube titled "Reacurring Nightmare". She has an amazing technique and incredible feel. She could play anything asked of her within the progressive genre. Check her out and get back to me. She comes across as a very shy soul with a humble attitude and plays some pretty amazing lead guitar work. I'm sorry for my attitude ...but she is light years ahead of many of the male guitar instructors on youtube who have degrees and years of touring experience under their belt.
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Points: 934 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 06:20
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Please close this thread.
 

   And Why is that !  just Ignore it if you don't like it , these Threads doesn't belong to you Epig , so respect others Opinion , otherwise , if there's anything against  this site policy , just close it yourself or send me a message , telling me why , and I will !   Wink   have a nice day !
Tracking Tracks of Rock
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 05:12
ummm... shya
There be dragons
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Points: 67458 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 04:26
But over 8% of the population will always be mice, right? Ermm
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 00:43
I was gonna write something serious but then Henry's post made me lol all over the floor.

But OOIOO is one of the best avant prog bands and they're all women! Who said women can't avant-prog (my great grandfather used to say that all the time, it was a different era, when only mice could avant prog.)
There be dragons
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 00:32

^ I agree. It was a well-argued post and I don't believe there should be a desperate rush to close the thread.

And Isn't 'discussion' the key ifocus of a discussion forum?
 
 
EDIT: Although, moving the thread to 'just for fun' may trivialise it. Though I do undertsand why it was moved, it was getting a fair amount of trolling.


Edited by dreadpirateroberts - July 21 2011 at 00:39
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 22:33
Originally posted by popeyethecat popeyethecat wrote:

Once something is already established as very male...it can be hard to break into it as a female! I know that if I uploaded a video to YouTube of myself playing anything remotely metal, for example, the comments would be littered with "she's hot" "she's ugly" "girls can't play metal" "why do girls try to be like guys?" "she needs to get back in the kitchen", etc., with a few girls saying something to the effect of "you go girl" or "I'm better AND hotter so NYEH".

So, one issue is the routine objectification of women. If you hear a female singing on a track, a very large amount of the listeners will instantly think "huh, I wonder if she's hot."

The other thing is that once it's established as male, people will feel that ONLY males are good at it, and women who do something that is on a par are either criticised for not being the BEST EVAR (whereas males of a similar level will be appreciated for being pretty good and the "not the best" thing is kind of ignored) or are glorified because hey, it's a woman!!!!! Also, once it's established as a masculine thing, people will sometimes accuse women of abandoning their femininity. Oh dear. None of this is very encouraging!

So, why is it like this?

"Prog" started at a time when popular music was male-dominated as a general rule, really. People were still breaking out of traditional gender roles. So, not a particularly good start.

As my boyfriend points out (haha), music is also a great way of wooing the ladies, and teenage blokes will often learn the guitar. But this doesn't go the other way so much culturally. The guitar itself is often seen as a masculine instrument (mind you, I play the Classical guitar. There are many, many, many exceptions to this "rule"), as is also the case for the bass and the drums (again, there are exceptions). Hmm. These instruments have another thing in common - they are used a LOT in prog!

There are plenty of great female singers, songwriters and musicians. But not a lot of these women are in prog bands. I would love to be in a band, but I'd be afraid of being objectified and being judged to harshly simply because I'm female. And it kind of puts me off.

In conclusion: I blame social attitudes and not biology.   
 
I concur with Logan. Hard hitting post, spells out a lot of things that I had suspected.  Clap As for the part of it that I highlighted, there's an extension or variation, by whatever name called, to it:  "there are so many males making music so we don't mind if some girls wanna make music too but it doesn't really matter and we don't really need them."  This is a more benign form of discrimination and unfortunately the most detrimental because such listeners would probably swear on oath that they are not sexist. 
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 20:14
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why am I still able to post here??

Please close this thread.....Thank you and have a great day!

Because it's in JFF now. Which means we can say whatever we want! NO MODS NO MASTERS ANARCHY ANARCHY WOOOOOOOO
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 19:52
Then I was inspired  -now I'm sad and tired.
After all I've tried for three years!
Feels like 90.

I'm not as sure as when we started.
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Points: 17973 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 19:35
Why am I still able to post here??

Please close this thread.....Thank you and have a great day!
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Points: 37425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 18:51
Thought that might be the case given the close post times.  No worries.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 18:20
I made my post before I got to read that one.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 190 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 18:09
Kind of a shame that all the discussions about women are about the same thing...this is roughly half of the population and all we can ask is "why aren't there many in prog?" Ermm
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Points: 37425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 18:06
I moved ithe topic to Just for Fun anyway since similar topics have been discussed so many times and it tends to get silly (plus, don't really feel like having it on the homepage as a topic).  I wouldn't be surprised if it is closed in time, however. I enjoyed reading your post.


Edited by Logan - July 20 2011 at 18:09
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Points: 190 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 18:04
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^I don't want to close this thread because the post I am quoting elevates the thread in my opinion, and I tend to think it unfair on those who put effort into their posts when discussion is closed.


If the thread fails to be of much interest after this, I don't personally mind! But thanks for the concern.
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Points: 37425 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 18:00
^I don't want to close this thread because the post I am quoting elevates the thread in my opinion, and I tend to think it unfair on those who put effort into their posts when discussion is closed.

Originally posted by popeyethecat popeyethecat wrote:

Once something is already established as very male...it can be hard to break into it as a female! I know that if I uploaded a video to YouTube of myself playing anything remotely metal, for example, the comments would be littered with "she's hot" "she's ugly" "girls can't play metal" "why do girls try to be like guys?" "she needs to get back in the kitchen", etc., with a few girls saying something to the effect of "you go girl" or "I'm better AND hotter so NYEH".

So, one issue is the routine objectification of women. If you hear a female singing on a track, a very large amount of the listeners will instantly think "huh, I wonder if she's hot."

The other thing is that once it's established as male, people will feel that ONLY males are good at it, and women who do something that is on a par are either criticised for not being the BEST EVAR (whereas males of a similar level will be appreciated for being pretty good and the "not the best" thing is kind of ignored) or are glorified because hey, it's a woman!!!!! Also, once it's established as a masculine thing, people will sometimes accuse women of abandoning their femininity. Oh dear. None of this is very encouraging!

So, why is it like this?

"Prog" started at a time when popular music was male-dominated as a general rule, really. People were still breaking out of traditional gender roles. So, not a particularly good start.

As my boyfriend points out (haha), music is also a great way of wooing the ladies, and teenage blokes will often learn the guitar. But this doesn't go the other way so much culturally. The guitar itself is often seen as a masculine instrument (mind you, I play the Classical guitar. There are many, many, many exceptions to this "rule"), as is also the case for the bass and the drums (again, there are exceptions). Hmm. These instruments have another thing in common - they are used a LOT in prog!

There are plenty of great female singers, songwriters and musicians. But not a lot of these women are in prog bands. I would love to be in a band, but I'd be afraid of being objectified and being judged to harshly simply because I'm female. And it kind of puts me off.

In conclusion: I blame social attitudes and not biology.   
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 17:49
Please close this thread.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 190 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 17:48
Once something is already established as very male...it can be hard to break into it as a female! I know that if I uploaded a video to YouTube of myself playing anything remotely metal, for example, the comments would be littered with "she's hot" "she's ugly" "girls can't play metal" "why do girls try to be like guys?" "she needs to get back in the kitchen", etc., with a few girls saying something to the effect of "you go girl" or "I'm better AND hotter so NYEH".

So, one issue is the routine objectification of women. If you hear a female singing on a track, a very large amount of the listeners will instantly think "huh, I wonder if she's hot."

The other thing is that once it's established as male, people will feel that ONLY males are good at it, and women who do something that is on a par are either criticised for not being the BEST EVAR (whereas males of a similar level will be appreciated for being pretty good and the "not the best" thing is kind of ignored) or are glorified because hey, it's a woman!!!!! Also, once it's established as a masculine thing, people will sometimes accuse women of abandoning their femininity. Oh dear. None of this is very encouraging!

So, why is it like this?

"Prog" started at a time when popular music was male-dominated as a general rule, really. People were still breaking out of traditional gender roles. So, not a particularly good start.

As my boyfriend points out (haha), music is also a great way of wooing the ladies, and teenage blokes will often learn the guitar. But this doesn't go the other way so much culturally. The guitar itself is often seen as a masculine instrument (mind you, I play the Classical guitar. There are many, many, many exceptions to this "rule"), as is also the case for the bass and the drums (again, there are exceptions). Hmm. These instruments have another thing in common - they are used a LOT in prog!

There are plenty of great female singers, songwriters and musicians. But not a lot of these women are in prog bands. I would love to be in a band, but I'd be afraid of being objectified and being judged to harshly simply because I'm female. And it kind of puts me off.

In conclusion: I blame social attitudes and not biology.   
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 17:17
Originally posted by trackstoni trackstoni wrote:

but why 99% of all creativities & Excellent Works are only made by Males !!



I lol'd
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