Prog Rock-Mega Gay?

Peter Rideout wrote: Could you please be more specific, Gdub, and do you speak for all gay people, much like James can (supposedly) see into the minds of others?

Ok, we have a misunderstanding here. I'll try to defuse the situation:

I will explain it in the simplest way possible for you Peter..what other way would you expect from me?

What I wanted was for you to tell me what part of James' post you agreed with, or what part of mine you didn't. What I especially wanted to know (and still don't know) is whether or not you and your gay friends are OK with the word by which you identify yourselves to the world, becoming synonymous with stupid or "lame."

If people started to use "Canadian" as a synonym for "idiot," for example, I would most certainly NOT be OK with it. 

I am going to use an episode of ALL in The Family as an example. Please stay with me now...Meathead met the Jefferson's son(a black guy) and kept trying to warm up to the guy by acting as though he was hip to the black cause(quite strong in those days) and the black guy(sorry..I do not recall his name) got fed up with Meathead and asked him to treat him like you would treat anyone else.

That is how I routinely treat gays. When they seek to draw attention to their gayness, they are making it an issue, not me. You have made your sexual orientation central to a disproportionate number of your posts here, I believe.

I do not want people walking on eggshells when the gay issue gets brought up because it may hurt my feelings. I also think I do speak for most gay people when I tell you to knock off the politically correct BS.

Again, I am an educator, who works with people's sons and daughters, and people of diverse races and socio-economic status. In the interest of establishing an educational environment that is conducive to learning, tolerance, respect, and inclusion, it is not mere "politically-correct BS" for me. When a student calls another "gay" as an insult, or condemns a book as "gay," especially when I KNOW that there are real gays in the room (or in the wider world, it doesn't matter), my silence will be taken as a signal that such bigotry is acceptable, or even condoned. (Young teens are especially vulnerable to this type of abuse, and suicides and running away from home are an all-too-common result. There are young people HERE too, who are not as secure/comfortable in their sexuality as we middle-aged folk -- remember that. My name (not a fake one) appears here, and I am an Archive Reviewer. I don't want my name linked to bigotry of ANY kind. This attitude of mine doesn't just apply to the classroom. I used to work in a cancer clinic, where my boss was a black Jamaican lady. One day, a white male patient asked me (seeing my white skin and blue eyes, I suppose) how I could stand to take orders from such a boss (ie female, black, and an immigrant). Cancer or no cancer, I let him know that I respected my boss, had no problems with her authority over me, and was offended by his assuming that I must share his prejudices. I have been anti-bigotry long before the term "politically correct" was coined.

 I KNOW alot more gay people than you do so don't even pretend to think you know more about this either Peter. Just treat me and anyone else who is gay like you would do with your straight friends as well.

I won't compare numbers with you -- no doubt you do have more gay acquaintences, and know more about what it means to be gay in North America than I do. Still, that doesn't mean that I know nothing about the issue.

Again, I'm not perfect, but I try treat others fairly, as I would want to be treated. If, however, they seek to make their gayness an issue, then it IS, perforce, an issue. If, for example, someone took pains to let all here know that she was a former Yes groupie, and had had oral sex with Steve Howe, and was still infatuated with the man, then she would be making it an issue, for the rest of us to notice, and thus making her past fair game for all to talk about -- fair enough.

I have lots of straight friends and the gay issue comes up maybe 2-3/year....it is usually not a factor or even on our minds. I regret even coming out because you guys can't seem to handle it anyway. Emdiar was right...it wasn't appropriate for this forum. I made a mistake. Sorry!! So the best thing you can do is just drop the whole damn subject and let it not resurface again if it makes you feel so uncomfortable. Your discomfort is what we gays hate!!!!

I am not uncomfortable with your gayness -- if anything, I find it interesting, much the same way that I find it interesting that some of the Forum members live in Peru. I have never met a gay prog fan before -- you yourself suggested that your taste in music was atypical for a gay man.

Long before you joined here, I had always assumed that some of the Forum members were gay -- statistically, there pretty well had to be some. In two different "Civility" threads (mine, and Maani's) I had said that we were a diverse lot, with differing nationalities, political persuasions, and sexual orientations. I worked in hospitals for 15 years, BTW -- I have know PLENTY of gay people (still do) and have liked and befriended some, been indifferent toward more, and disliked others -- just as with straight co-workers. You were simply the first gay here to actively draw attention to his status. I have never posted here, BTW, about my having sex with my wife, or former girlfriends -- why would I? It's irrelevant.

P.S...I have never knocked one person on here for voting for Kerry so quit attacking my political beliefs. I am NOT niave and I stay very much in touch with the issues..democrat/republican/gay..etc. I listen to more news radio than I do prog. I resent you calling me ignorant just  because I can't  eloquently express myself as well as you!!!

Fair enough. I apologise for the political "diatribe, and for presuming to lecture you. Vote with your own conscience -- just vote. Still, your sexuality and republicanism are a conundrum for more than just me here, but it's not a statistical impossibility -- merely an improbability. Gayness seems to be central to your identity, but you don't let it colour your political thinking. Again, your choice. Hey, there are black republicans too!

Finally, not ONCE have I called you "ignorant," or made fun of your writing abilities. If I had to professionally classify your writing level, I'd say you were a "high average, and ready for post-secondary." (An official classification -- NOT an insult, BTW.)

As Maani would say,

PEACE!

PROJECTED RESULT

George W Bush: 39 John Kerry: 3

5 of 51 states called, inc DC

It's early doors but I am getting worried!

Fear my wrath!

Suddenly there is a movement towards Reed against Intrinsic Republican Bigotry!

Reedism, hum I like that.

Mr Rideout has merely echoed what I was trying to get through to you last month. He just says it so much less aggressively than I do! How can an intelligent gay man vote Republican? Or black man? Or Christian, or Muslim Or HUMAN BEING???????

A UPS driver? Voting Republican? Must be a six figure paycheck

Why are gays so gay?

 Why so cynical, young James?

I was mainly just responding to the mostly un-provoked and over-sized outburst by "the musical box"...in truth, I'm just about as cynical as I am young  

Frankly, your attitude on this one is rather patronizing -- don't presume to be able to see inside the hearts of all those who don't think the same way that you do. Point taken; I don't even 'know' my own mind half the time...all I can go by is what I see and hear, and I've learned a healthy scepticism of even that much. Although one man's healthy scepticism can be another man's cynicism

Should I not speak my position if I feel that I might otherwise, in some small (but real) way seem to condone homophobia, or make gays less than welcome here? You should speak your position even if you think the world is flat...and your position on this topic is much more arguable and important than that one would be. I wish we did have a few more gay participants- so far it's been just us old heteros tossing around theories. Oh, and gdub...but he seems to be able to express himself quite clearly and openly. Even with a bully like me on his back

I know: "I was just joking -- too bad you fell for it."

Well, as a gay singer once wrote: "That joke isn't funny anymore."  Wasn't that lyric about suicide? Actually, Morrissey himself has never made a definite statement about his sexuality (apart from his choice of celibacy). Most people assume that he's gay, and it's probably a reasonable assumption, but I'm sure you'd agree he probably would not wish to be referred to as a "gay singer". His own words (not to prove any specific point, just because it's appropriate): "I don't recognise such terms as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and I think it's important that there's someone in pop music who's like that. These words do great damage, they confuse people and they make people feel unhappy, so I want to do away with them."