Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Prog Mind
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe Prog Mind

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 16>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 14:26
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I may not know much about philosophy but that is bloody terrible maths.
 
15.5/20 is 77.5% no matter how badly you do the sums.
 
Little wonder philosophers never achieve anything.

it was 38 years ago and i am still lousy in math, which probably makes me a moron in your eyes (i know I already was, Dean) but your ungracious comment about not achieving anything deserves a strong rebuke, as i am not a philosopher but a career restaurant industry businessman, so I do know how to count. I have 5 children and recently a grandfather, I think that is quite an achievement. Oh, and one last thing, I left chronic sarcasm behind a long time ago.....Embarrassed 
Confused Did you create that marking method or was it the education system? Since it was evidently the latter then my criticism was of the Candian school board that marked the paper, not of you. Since you are not a professional philosopher then my ungracious comment was clearly not directed at you either. Nor do I regard anyone as a moron, that is simply not something I would contemplate.
 
I have been berating professional academic philosophy for 14 pages in this thread, and many more in other threads over the past six years that I have been posting on this site, if this is seen as sarcasm then so be it.
 
Nothing I wrote was a criticism of you personally.
 
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:


I read me original post to see where I made the mistake (and raising your obvious ire), The numbers were supposed to be =20 pts  and not 32. So at worst, I am prone to some light dyslexia or original typo syndrome. Oh well, another failed missile test Wink......So do we apologize to each other, Mr Forum Admin/moderator? I just did.....   
Adding an arbitrary offset to make the numbers work is still an error on the part of the examiner (not you) - by this method a blank sheet of paper would get a 20% grade - they should have multiplied the original mark by five and left it at that, or they should have marked the paper out of 25 or they should have scored you 19.6/20. Sorry, but the grade should still be 77.5%
 
I don't believe there is anything here that either of us need apologise for, but for creating the misunderstanding that has ensued I do apologise for unreservedly. Hug
What?
Back to Top
tszirmay View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 14:07
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I may not know much about philosophy but that is bloody terrible maths.
 
15.5/20 is 77.5% no matter how badly you do the sums.
 
Little wonder philosophers never achieve anything.

it was 38 years ago and i am still lousy in math, which probably makes me a moron in your eyes (i know I already was, Dean) but your ungracious comment about not achieving anything deserves a strong rebuke, as i am not a philosopher but a career restaurant industry businessman, so I do know how to count. I have 5 children and recently a grandfather, I think that is quite an achievement. Oh, and one last thing, I left chronic sarcasm behind a long time ago.....Embarrassed 

I read me original post to see where I made the mistake (and raising your obvious ire), The numbers were supposed to be =20 pts  and not 32. So at worst, I am prone to some light dyslexia or original typo syndrome. Oh well, another failed missile test Wink......So do we apologize to each other, Mr Forum Admin/moderator? I just did.....   
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Back to Top
JoeFerguson View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 13:49
Hey guys, wouldn't let me post in Get The Word Out section.

Would greatly appreciate it if you'd check out my Canadian Prog-Metal band that just launched!

Thanks a lot! :D http://www.facebook.com/ViaPulse

Edited by JoeFerguson - June 04 2013 at 13:49
Back to Top
tszirmay View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 13:40
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I may not know much about philosophy but that is bloody terrible maths.
 
15.5/20 is 77.5% no matter how badly you do the sums.
 
Little wonder philosophers never achieve anything.

it was 38 years ago and i am still lousy in math, which probably makes me a moron in your eyes (i know I already was, Dean) but your ungracious comment about not achieving anything deserves a strong rebuke, as i am not a philosopher but a career restaurant industry businessman, so I do know how to count. I have 5 children and recently a grandfather, I think that is quite an achievement. Oh, and one last thing, I left chronic sarcasm behind a long time ago.....Embarrassed 
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 13:26
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Panta rei. It's a phylosopher who said it.
A philosopher also said "Oh man, have I've got the munchies..." (probably)
What?
Back to Top
progbethyname View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 12:51
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

It's so private for me. I don't want anyone to witness me listening to King Crimson's Islands. I don't want their opinion or reaction as to why Boz sounds cheesy singing "Beneath the winter waves" or their sarcastic comments about the music not fitting to the times we are now living in. A majority of people in society constantly place emphasis on that and it's annoying. What physically and emotionally fell into place on the day Boz recorded the vocals for Islands is timeless in it's own right. I must have a certain mind set to even hear it.  White Willow has the same affect lyrically and the listening pleasure must be private and isolated....because I've noticed most people cringing at the sound of it. It's as if you end up answering a thousand questions if you broadcast the music in your living room while friends are over, put into a position to defend it and judged. If my kids hear Art Zoyd or Univers Zero, they have an understanding that it is quite like Classical music and dismiss any reaction of fear influenced from the music. They realize that the sections which create a feeling of suspense sound like  my film compositions and they identify with the art somehow...even though they are too young to comprehend abstract thinking. When their friends sleep over and parents knock on the door to drop off their child...if Art Zoyd or Patricia Dallio are playing in the kitchen...it must stop immediately because if the parents hear the music they may find me questionable.

My greatest appreciation of the arts, is when i am alone. I find i like it best that way. I'm not totally against engaging with people when i listen to music, etc., but that full realisation of it is when i am alone.


Absolutely. I would not have it any other way. Maybe this is a large reason why I've been able to enjoy my own company all These years. Music listening has taught me so much. :) I'm with you on this one
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 12:46
Panta rei. It's a phylosopher who said it.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 12:21
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
Most people understand that the future that we encounter will be one of change. But change always begets change. It's exponential, really. Things will start changing quicker than we can even fathom at this point. It will be overwhelming.
 
Wait until you see your childrem, all of a sudden 35 years old or something like it!
 
It's not really "change" ... it's evolution! And sometimes I think this is what we don't "get" in progressive music ... it's not about "time changes" and what not (like rock'n'roll and a lot of jazz music IS!), but about the evolution of the music, be it a theme, lyrics or otherwise. And this applies better to all the music we love, than the word "changes" ever will!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
presdoug View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8618
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 11:52
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

It's so private for me. I don't want anyone to witness me listening to King Crimson's Islands. I don't want their opinion or reaction as to why Boz sounds cheesy singing "Beneath the winter waves" or their sarcastic comments about the music not fitting to the times we are now living in. A majority of people in society constantly place emphasis on that and it's annoying. What physically and emotionally fell into place on the day Boz recorded the vocals for Islands is timeless in it's own right. I must have a certain mind set to even hear it.  White Willow has the same affect lyrically and the listening pleasure must be private and isolated....because I've noticed most people cringing at the sound of it. It's as if you end up answering a thousand questions if you broadcast the music in your living room while friends are over, put into a position to defend it and judged. If my kids hear Art Zoyd or Univers Zero, they have an understanding that it is quite like Classical music and dismiss any reaction of fear influenced from the music. They realize that the sections which create a feeling of suspense sound like  my film compositions and they identify with the art somehow...even though they are too young to comprehend abstract thinking. When their friends sleep over and parents knock on the door to drop off their child...if Art Zoyd or Patricia Dallio are playing in the kitchen...it must stop immediately because if the parents hear the music they may find me questionable.

My greatest appreciation of the arts, is when i am alone. I find i like it best that way. I'm not totally against engaging with people when i listen to music, etc., but that full realisation of it is when i am alone.
Back to Top
presdoug View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8618
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 11:48
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


Originally posted by -Radioswim- -Radioswim- wrote:



On the subject of lyrics and prog, I think that good lyrics are a necessity. What makes lyrics good though? Half the time I can enjoy nonsensical phrases in songs as long as there is a sense of flow to the words.Most of the time good lyrics make sense, and it's important that they do. But other times... Confused<span style="line-height: normal;">"Though flawed by design, I’m torn from the strife</span><br style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: normal;">That did pile at the door but is feared no more</span><br style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: normal;">Though I once wedded her and her want was to play</span><br style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: normal;">As another's arms held took her wanting away"I mean call me slow and stupid, but I still don't know what those lyrics mean... and I don't care, they just sound great in the context of the music they accompany. They fit the mood, and they flow nicely.As for the earlier discussion, I find the disdain for 'philosophy' to be a bit disheartening. Philosophy at it's most widely understood and simplest form is the pursuit of understanding. I think it's often mistaken for ideology, which I think is the result of that pursuit, of philosophical theorizing. The statements that philosophy is pointless or harmful seems a bit splendorous, seeing as we as intelligent beings are practically theorizing non-stop, even if you don't mean to. Philosophy was never invented, it's been a part of us from the beginning. Sure, people are still starving, there are still pointless wars, but at what rate? History tells us, much lower than previously. Was the extremity of that variable even considered when you made the statement?Philosophy only becomes harmful when the pursuit of understanding becomes more important than our empathy. To assume that as the inevitable end is foolish, I think we've already proven otherwise.Evidence of the good? Well, look around you. Virtually everything you understand as good or truth in your life, and everything else you enjoy in your life is a result of our nature, of the endless thirst to understand ourselves, philosophy.Good day. Handshake</span>

Agree with everything but just one remark: the fact that we have less misery, wars and injustice than centuries ago is surely (and thankfully) true but it is in no way a reason for confidence towards the short-mid term future. Globalisation is bringing some very deep challenges which I'm afraid few people realise. Globalisation will tend to standardize people's cultures, politics and economics but humans have an innate wish to be individuals, to be allowed our personal freedom and singularity. I'm afraid that at some point in near-future history conflicts about this may pop up.
Most people understand that the future that we encounter will be one of change. But change always begets change. It's exponential, really. Things will start changing quicker than we can even fathom at this point. It will be overwhelming.
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 11:16

It's so private for me. I don't want anyone to witness me listening to King Crimson's Islands. I don't want their opinion or reaction as to why Boz sounds cheesy singing "Beneath the winter waves" or their sarcastic comments about the music not fitting to the times we are now living in. A majority of people in society constantly place emphasis on that and it's annoying. What physically and emotionally fell into place on the day Boz recorded the vocals for Islands is timeless in it's own right. I must have a certain mind set to even hear it.  White Willow has the same affect lyrically and the listening pleasure must be private and isolated....because I've noticed most people cringing at the sound of it. It's as if you end up answering a thousand questions if you broadcast the music in your living room while friends are over, put into a position to defend it and judged. If my kids hear Art Zoyd or Univers Zero, they have an understanding that it is quite like Classical music and dismiss any reaction of fear influenced from the music. They realize that the sections which create a feeling of suspense sound like  my film compositions and they identify with the art somehow...even though they are too young to comprehend abstract thinking. When their friends sleep over and parents knock on the door to drop off their child...if Art Zoyd or Patricia Dallio are playing in the kitchen...it must stop immediately because if the parents hear the music they may find me questionable.



Edited by TODDLER - June 04 2013 at 11:23
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 10:41
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Philosophy is a waste of a mind, it is the single most useless invention mankind has ever created, and the nonsense that dribbles from the mouths of pop and rock lyricists are some of the worst example of that. Prog lyrics are often poor poetry and even poorer philosophy even when compared to the inane banality of Hit Me baby One More Time. Why should I think that the probably drunken and possibly drug-addled musings of a singer in a rock band should carry any meaningful message or insight into the human condition. If the words tell a story then great, if they attempt to impart wisdom then ... meh.
LOLLOLLOL......
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 09:51
That was 1974's phylosophy. Today it might be about Bill Gates and Malthus and you may write your dissertation about TV reality shows. 

I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2013 at 09:43
I may not know much about philosophy but that is bloody terrible maths.
 
15.5/20 is 77.5% no matter how badly you do the sums.
 
Little wonder philosophers never achieve anything.
What?
Back to Top
tszirmay View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2013 at 10:30
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:

Let me get this straight.
You got 98% in a PHILOSOPHY course and this is down mainly to a paper you did on PROG?
 
Ryerson by any chance?

No this was the french system, highschool diploma + university entrance exam. The famous College Stanislas in Montreal that has given us Maneige, Men Without Hats and the Box . The prof did not really know much about prog at the outset but was really appreciative of the depth of my essay, the vast amount of pictorials and the overall novelty of it all (it was in its infancy in 1974). I quoted Heidegger, Sartre, Christian Vander and Robert Fripp. I explained the evolution (progression) from rock n roll to rock and then focused on the aesthetics of combining these elements with symphonic structures. The mark was 15.5 out of 20, at the time it was multipliable by 4 and adding 32, (getting 18, 19 or 20 out of 20  is impossible ) so that comes up to 98%. A colleague got 99% on a masterful etude on the duality of the spirit! (You know, good vs evil!)  
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Back to Top
Knobby View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2013
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 490
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2013 at 21:50
Let me get this straight.
You got 98% in a PHILOSOPHY course and this is down mainly to a paper you did on PROG?
 
Ryerson by any chance?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2013 at 19:53
That pretty much confirms everything I've said thus far.
What?
Back to Top
tszirmay View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2013 at 19:45

Sort of side topic:

The year is 1974, first year philosophy course ahead of next year’s baccalaureat and our teacher arrives, long hair and a long beard (I swear its true) and he sat down, not uttering a word for a good 15 minutes.  

Slowly, the sweat started dripping down our collective faces, the silence brutally noisy and the fear palpable. After what seemed like an interminable torture, he finally broached the silence and stated “ You are probably all afraid of that big word-philosophy- but let me begin by opening your eyes to what the true essence is: Any thought process is valid as long as you have some basis for arguing your point, whether abstract or concrete. As long as there is a developed though, the essence of humanity is always to attempt to go beyond” . With another 45 minutes to go, he got up and said: ”Class dismissed!” Instant relief!

My final written dissertation at the year’s end was about, yeah, you guessed it “Progressive rock” ! 27 pages full of pictures and graphics as well as extended definitions, I still have it today in my possession. 

BTW, I got a 98% passing grade, second highest in my class.

Not EVERYTHING is a cost/benefit analysis after all…….Sorry for all the tunnelheads/accountants/Cartesians  

I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2013 at 17:48
Originally posted by -Radioswim- -Radioswim- wrote:


As for the earlier discussion, I find the disdain for 'philosophy' to be a bit disheartening. Philosophy at it's most widely understood and simplest form is the pursuit of understanding. I think it's often mistaken for ideology, which I think is the result of that pursuit, of philosophical theorizing. The statements that philosophy is pointless or harmful seems a bit splendorous, seeing as we as intelligent beings are practically theorizing non-stop, even if you don't mean to.
You haven't read every post have you? Do you really think I would arrive at this conclusion out of ignorance?
 
[splendorous? really? are you sure? Confused okay, if you say so Confused]
 
Originally posted by -Radioswim- -Radioswim- wrote:


Philosophy was never invented, it's been a part of us from the beginning. Sure, people are still starving, there are still pointless wars, but at what rate? History tells us, much lower than previously. Was the extremity of that variable even considered when you made the statement?
You mean this one?
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Show me one case where we as a species has learnt from their mistakes. We are all arrogant. Empires still rise and fall, we still wage pointless wars, people still die of starvation. History has taught us nothing.
Did you not understand the question? Much lower than previously by what meter? Duration? Magnitude? Frequency? Occurrence? Concurrence? Death-toll? Survival-rate? Numbers affected? Areas involved? Are you claiming by any chance that "Philosophy" as a formal academic discipline is responsible for alleviating any (even the minutest immeasurable amount) of the suffering inflicted by war or starvation by any direct or indirect means you care to mention? Do you think that the 45 violent conflicts that are currently being waged around the world is a LOW number? There are only 192 countries on this planet to squabble over (ffs). Don't you think that after kicking the crap out of each other for the past 10,000+ years we would have actually learnt something by now other than throwing things at high velocity at human beings causes them to die? You say that "History tells us" - show me where, because I honestly don't see it.
 

Originally posted by -Radioswim- -Radioswim- wrote:


Philosophy only becomes harmful when the pursuit of understanding becomes more important than our empathy. To assume that as the inevitable end is foolish, I think we've already proven otherwise.
I think we haven't proven a damn thing.
Originally posted by -Radioswim- -Radioswim- wrote:


Evidence of the good? Well, look around you. Virtually everything you understand as good or truth in your life, and everything else you enjoy in your life is a result of our nature, of the endless thirst to understand ourselves, philosophy.
No, it isn't. That is "philosophy" claiming the win it is not entitled to. (this looks like a "everything good is the result of philosophy and everything bad is not" argument again)
What?
Back to Top
progbethyname View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849
Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2013 at 12:54
Philosophy implies some education?? No. It implies a lot of education. Philosophy is like analyzing and understanding poetry. Some people really get it and some really don't at all. There is no in between.

Actually, one person who definately knows what he talking about DEREK DICK a.k.a FISH of MARILLION. He is actually smart and sophisticated enough to combine his love of poetry and philosophy together. It is so evident on the FUGAZI album. Incredible lyricist. Very smart man. :)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 16>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.193 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.