Does lyrical content worry you?

Anyway Lyrics worry me and that is the one reason that I stay away from a great deal of the Death Metal and Black Metal bands. Swearing doesn't worry me unless it is overt and out of context. Bands proclaiming live that this one is for Satan are not bands that I have in my collection. People who like Marilyn Manson are people that I generally try to avoid because I enjoy clean spiritual space. I enjoy aggro music if we are talking about Dream Theater, Symphony X or the like - I even enjoy a bit of Disturbed and Static X. Mainly I enjoy music that's intelligent, melodic, complex!!

^ His vocals sound like a really strange Leonard Cohen parody.  

DavetheSlave wrote: The Beatles proclaimed that they were more popular than God??

People mainly believe what they want to believe!! Does anyone have any idea of how many so called dangerous cults are operating in the US today???

DavetheSlave wrote: If you don't think that people can be influenced try Adolf Hitler - influenced a whole country didn't he. I don't believe anyone here has made that claim.  However, my point was that people generally believe what they want to believe: the rise of Nazism in Germany is not excepted from this principle (indeed, even dictators require popular support).   ...it is proven scientifically today that people can most definately be influenced. Although not uncommon, this view of science is quite misguided.  Science doesn't "prove" anything; rather it provides predictive models of certain phenomena (those that lend themselves to mathematical description).  With these somewhat technical points aside, I'm unaware of any serious scientific study (i.e., published in a peer-reviewed journal) that gives evidence for the claim that music influences people.  (Observe that the claim itself is really too vague for verification.  Influence how?  In what way?  All music or only certain types?) People in a rage don't listen to the Moody Blues and people who want some mellow space don't listen to Pantera. To the contrary, sometimes when I'm in a bad way I'll seek out music that is peaceful or uplifting.  Similarly, often when I'm in high spirits, I'll play something a bit more energetic. The infamous Stones concert killing a long time ago is further proof that people can be influenced. Are you referring to the incident at Altamont?  The band made a poor judgment in hiring the Hell's Angels for security at the show; still, according to most accounts, it was that gang and not The Rolling Stones that instigated any of the violence at that concert.

Hi all,

Raff wrote: As Dean mentioned LaVey, I'd like to point out that the notorious Norwegians had really very little to do with Satanism as professed by the Church of Satan. Their hatred of Christianity was founded on the rejection of the values of equality between human beings, solidarity, loving your neighbour, and such - a rejection essential to anyone who wants to embrace any ideals of racial superiority and hate-mongering. That's not entirely accurate, I'm afraid.  Of course, you're completely correct that our friends from the North did not align themselves with LaVey.  However, those values that you claim they rejected are essentially the same values rejected by LaVey satanists (refer to the so-called Nine Satanic Statements).  Their hatred of Christianity, at least when articulate, is rooted in ethnic pride (misguided though it might be): in particular, they resent the Christian conversion of Scandinavia that occured several centuries before, and this provides, so they claim, the justification for removal of the "invaders." And with this remark I'll bow out of the conversation, apologising for having anyone think I am in favour of thought control. Unfortunately, my experiences of the past year - both with the spread of racism and intolerance in my own country of Italy, and with immigration in the USA - have made me particularly sensitive to any issues related to fear and hostility towards other people. No need to bow out.  I sympathize with your point of view; certainly, I feel disgust towards "racism and intolerance" and I recognize this as a major social problem (especially here in the US).  With that said, I think that it's crucial to maintain the principle of free speech.  In fact, the principle is meaningless if not applied to those instances of speech we detest.

WinterLight wrote: As an aside, I think metal's poor reputation to be quite unfounded.  Of course, certain elements of the scene well fit the puerile stereotypes, but that's not exactly a distinction from the rest of pop culture (a generally youth-oriented culture).  Leaving commentary about musicianship to another thread, I think that many metal bands promote an overalll positive viewpoint:  think for yourself, stand by your principles, weed out hypocrisy and injustice, etc.  I don't see how these ideas can influence anyone in a negative.  Still, if unfocused rebellion is what one seeks, then that is what one will find.

WinterLight wrote: But the question remains:  is it true that people are so easily influenced?  To be honest, I'm not sure that any of us can provide a definitive answer.  However, I do think that there might be some truth to the adage that people believe what they want to believe.  To say it differently, people seek out in whatever work what they most desire, and inevitably they find it.  A familiar example from "satanic" metal music:  the person who committed suicide after finding a pro-suicide message in Ozzy Osbourne's "Suicide Solution".  Of course, the lyrics make it clear to the meanest intelligence that the song is a warning about alcohol abuse ("solution" as in mixture, not answer).  But he found, quite unfortunately, that which he sought.  Not unlike the phenomenon of facial recognition on the Martian surface.

I see your point, Teo, and in an ideal world I would agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, idiots will always be with us, ready to be influenced by whomever speaks in the most persuasive way - even if I have to concur that, in terms of actual danger, people like the Norwegian black metallers rank way below other kinds of humanity who may espouse less extreme views, which just because of that may appeal to larger numbers. The example of the supposed danger posed by immigrants is a real one - this is how the current Italian government got elected into office, by getting the people to believe they were surrounded by all kinds of criminals coming from other countries.

Anyway, I digress.... On a totally personal level, I think that what repelled me most about those Norwegian guys was their hatred of everything and everyone. People like that give me the creeps, and I don't believe they are particularly beneficial in a world that certainly doesn't need more hate-mongering. And this, mind you, goes beyond any purely musical considerations...