The most musically complex prog band(s)?

presdoug wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: presdoug wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: It is correct that some classical is more complex than a lot of prog.  For instance, Iannis Xenakis used fractal math and other advanced mathematics for his compositions.  Plus they usually aren't as rigid in their song structures.... way more "free" than a lot of prog with more shifting rhythms... well that is at least most 20th century avant garde composers.  Once I got into them, prog took a backseat... complexity is pretty important to me, in terms of appreciating music-i very much love complex classical music, the best for me being the world of the symphony, the most complex symphonic music being that of the late romantics Mahler and Bruckner-the ultimate in musical depth-to quote the late conductor Bruno Walter-"I could not live my life without the music of Bruckner and Mahler" well then, give me some recommendations of which compositions/conductors/cd companies to start with(for these two composers)... Do they have any of those super cheap Naxos discs? there are Mahler and Bruckner symphonies on Naxos-stay away from the Naxos Bruckner-they are not worth it-as far as Mahler symphonies on Naxos-go for the 5th Symphony conducted by Bruno Walter-(historical Naxos)-also would recommend Mahler's 4th Symphony also conducted by Bruno Walter with singer Kathleen Ferrier(historical Naxos)     As far as the best performances of Bruckner and Mahler symphonies-conductor Bruno Walter is at the top of both mountain peaks-essential Bruckner from him are symphonies 4,7, and 9 with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, sym. 8 with the New York Phil. from 1941-(Music and Arts CD), and his Mahler sym. 1 and 2 with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra and New York Philharmonic Orchestras respectively, and his stereo recording of Mahler's 9th with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra.               Also great Bruckner is available from conductor Oswald Kabasta (sym. 4,7 and 9-Munich Phil.)           the  Bruckner's are on Sony (Walter) and Music and Arts(Walter sym. 8)and Music and Arts(Kabasta)             the non Naxos Mahler's are on Sony

Thanks!  That is a very lengthy list to choose from..

avalanchemaster wrote: presdoug wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: It is correct that some classical is more complex than a lot of prog.  For instance, Iannis Xenakis used fractal math and other advanced mathematics for his compositions.  Plus they usually aren't as rigid in their song structures.... way more "free" than a lot of prog with more shifting rhythms... well that is at least most 20th century avant garde composers.  Once I got into them, prog took a backseat... complexity is pretty important to me, in terms of appreciating music-i very much love complex classical music, the best for me being the world of the symphony, the most complex symphonic music being that of the late romantics Mahler and Bruckner-the ultimate in musical depth-to quote the late conductor Bruno Walter-"I could not live my life without the music of Bruckner and Mahler" well then, give me some recommendations of which compositions/conductors/cd companies to start with(for these two composers)... Do they have any of those super cheap Naxos discs?

there are Mahler and Bruckner symphonies on Naxos-stay away from the Naxos Bruckner-they are not worth it-as far as Mahler symphonies on Naxos-go for the 5th Symphony conducted by Bruno Walter-(historical Naxos)-also would recommend Mahler's 4th Symphony also conducted by Bruno Walter with singer Kathleen Ferrier(historical Naxos)
    As far as the best performances of Bruckner and Mahler symphonies-conductor Bruno Walter is at the top of both mountain peaks-essential Bruckner from him are symphonies 4,7, and 9 with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, sym. 8 with the New York Phil. from 1941-(Music and Arts CD), and his Mahler sym. 1 and 2 with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra and New York Philharmonic Orchestras respectively, and his stereo recording of Mahler's 9th with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra.
              Also great Bruckner is available from conductor Oswald Kabasta (sym. 4,7 and 9-Munich Phil.)
          the  Bruckner's are on Sony (Walter) and Music and Arts(Walter sym. 8)and Music and Arts(Kabasta)
            the non Naxos Mahler's are on Sony

presdoug wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: It is correct that some classical is more complex than a lot of prog.  For instance, Iannis Xenakis used fractal math and other advanced mathematics for his compositions.  Plus they usually aren't as rigid in their song structures.... way more "free" than a lot of prog with more shifting rhythms... well that is at least most 20th century avant garde composers.  Once I got into them, prog took a backseat... complexity is pretty important to me, in terms of appreciating music-i very much love complex classical music, the best for me being the world of the symphony, the most complex symphonic music being that of the late romantics Mahler and Bruckner-the ultimate in musical depth-to quote the late conductor Bruno Walter-"I could not live my life without the music of Bruckner and Mahler"

Area.  so layered and complex.  Most of the stuff mentioned I do not consider complex.... with the exception of certain classical composers...

Frank Zappa as far as classics go and Dream Theater (or perhaps The Mars Volta) for modern.

It is correct that some classical is more complex than a lot of prog.  For instance, Iannis Xenakis used fractal math and other advanced mathematics for his compositions.  Plus they usually aren't as rigid in their song structures.... way more "free" than a lot of prog with more shifting rhythms... well that is at least most 20th century avant garde composers.  Once I got into them, prog took a backseat...

Musically complex = King Crimson, esp. "LTIA"

I'll only mention Univers Zero , since it has only been mentioned once : )
(so I wont mention GG)

progressive wrote: Ruins (their album Symphonica)

I thought of them...don't know if I've heard that particular album... But I think there's a difference between "advanced" and "complex". Complex to me has to do with several things going on at the same time, like multilayered pattern. Harmonically it would be polyphony and arrangement-wise it could be made so that a melody is split up between many instruments and voices. Rythmically it would be polyrythmic and contrapuntal. Ruins is only two people, so it's drums, bass and voice. I think it's mostly advanced rythmic stuff, not THAT complex and intricate, but "dense" and advanced progressive noise-rock.

Sample of Univers Zero "Bonjour+Chez+Vous"
http://www.lastfm.se/music/Univers+Zero/_/Bonjour+Chez+Vous

But as we all know, complex doesnt mean good, it's not even a quality in itself. Quality doesnt lie in complexity in itself. It's also a relative word of course. If I hear music that seems really complex to me, it's typically some classical music.



Edited by wilmon91 - March 14 2010 at 16:17

I am going to have to agree - for a current 'still active' band it has to be Planet X.  Animals as Leaders can be quite complex too.

Quatermass comes to mind