No Offense, But Why...

MHDTV wrote: There are very few people who can actually flow in the world.

debrewguy wrote: lucas wrote: [QUOTE=MHDTV]Since when does Rap not have instruments...To be fair it's mainly electronic but it requires just as much talent and creativity as a prog song (To make good rap that is).   Rap rules the music industry nowadays (r&b, dance and techno are all derivative of hip-hop), db - Usually Lucas, if not always, something derives from an already existing thing. R & B has been around for several decades LB : current R&B has nothing to do with what we call "rhythm & blues". and if someone proves me rap is not made for money (just look at the videoclips : big villas, big cars, big busted bimbos) but requires talent to sample music and skills for turning a record left or right on a record-player, I don't believe in music anymore. Do the names Steve Reich & Stockhausen ring a few bells ? LB : I have the same aversion for them as for Rap. Heck , I know of four young lads by the name of John, George, Paul & Ringo who were said to be easily surpassed by many lesser known virtuosos, but somehow managed to create a very fine body of work. LB : you can't deny they delivered something outstanding (for the time they produced their music) and marked their era. So please, if you dislike, or abhor Rap, just say so. But this attitude of "no talent required, no experience necessary, no value implied" towards an "art" form you don't enjoy is a bit much and is something that many here at PA decry at every chance when it comes to people demeaning progressive rock. LB : in order to be a rapper,  you have to be angry against society and speak without making a break during your whole speech. Well, it's true you have to train for this latter point... Lastly, remember, in any creative endeavour, there is usually the following divide - 5% great, 95% crap. And that includes prog. LB : I never said prog is the ultimate form of music and consists of 100 % of masterpieces. For my part I reckon at least 50 % of it is crap (oops, I wrote that on a prog forum). But you must admit there is far more diversity in prog than in rap. For Rap, go & read or listen to groups like the Roots, Public Enemy, the Beastie Boys (yes, their debut has many puerile elements), and you may find that there are serious minded music lovers out there that can & have found something worthy of appreciation in this genre of music. LB : I know the Roots, one of the rare rap bands to use instruments, but that doesn't make them "better" than the other ones. Never hooked on Public Enemy or Beastie Boys (well, maybe the punk-hardcore era of the latter, when I was a kid of course). There are always bands that stand out of the crowd, but all those "spoken" vocals make you tired after two or three tunes. I mean you can't listen to a whole rap record for your pleasure, it's a music to dance (breakdance), nothing else.

lucas wrote: MHDTV wrote: Since when does Rap not have instruments...To be fair it's mainly electronic but it requires just as much talent and creativity as a prog song (To make good rap that is).   Rap rules the music industry nowadays (r&b, dance and techno are all derivative of hip-hop), db - Usually Lucas, if not always, something derives from an already existing thing. R & B has been around for several decades, and the name came about as a way to market "race" records to a wider whiter market. Dance came into its' own in the 80s, when Disco was a dirty word, though its' composition is a bit beyond the stereotypical Disco (128 bpm, heavy bass, repetitive sexed-up lyrics). Techno, all things considered, can be said to have Electronic music (oh oh , PA has a separate genre for prog electronic), early 80s New Wave, Disco& Dance, along with some R & B influences in a stew. Sampling, synth drums, anything computer or electronic can be the instrument(s) used. J M Jarre's early works are cited by some in this genre as guide posts.  and if someone proves me rap is not made for money (just look at the videoclips : big villas, big cars, big busted bimbos) but requires talent to sample music and skills for turning a record left or right on a record-player, I don't believe in music anymore. DB - I recall (the quote, unfortunately not the name) someone saying that if a musician was 100 % just making music for music's sake, they would never come out of the basement/garage etc. . SO anyone who puts their work out there, live or recorded, is basically looking for something more than just satisfaction. Of course, if you can name me any musical act that has refused AND refuses to accept any monies , please do so. As for the imagery in Rap videos, let me mention a few things - 1) wealth and its' more decadent examples of conspicuous consumption are not exclusive to any one musical genre. 80s hair metal was guitly of it. Many rich/famous/powerful people have enjoyed these perks of their position. Of course, if you can explain away why a Rap Star like Henry Kissinger humbly refused to partake of these "joys" (yes, including lovely women) then please, again ,. do so. Talent, is talent. Would you consider the bass guitar as a less skillful instrument because it has 4 strings vs the 6 for a guitar ? Would you make the same comparison between the 6 string guitar and an 88 key keyboard ? Samples, like notes or chords, still need to be "assembled" into the musical composition that the musician is writing. Do the names Steve Reich & Stockhausen ring a few bells ? I do believe that they used "samples". As in any musical or artistic genre, there are many that simply achieve success due to plain dumb luck, and whose talents & skills are, at best, passable or worse, laughable. But there are some whose musical abilities are, say, average, who have come up with some of the greatest works of art due to their innate musical talents, not their instrumental prowess. Heck , I know of four young lads by the name of John, George, Paul & Ringo who were said to be easily surpassed by many lesser known virtuosos, but somehow managed to create a very fine body of work. So please, if you dislike, or abhor Rap, just say so. But this attitude of "no talent required, no experience necessary, no value implied" towards an "art" form you don't enjoy is a bit much and is something that many here at PA decry at every chance when it comes to people demeaning progressive rock. Lastly, remember, in any creative endeavour, there is usually the following divide - 5% great, 95% crap. And that includes prog. For Rap, go & read or listen to groups like the Roots, Public Enemy, the Beastie Boys (yes, their debut has many puerile elements), and you may find that there are serious minded music lovers out there that can & have found something worthy of appreciation in this genre of music. And surprisingly, you can really apply this same quality ratio in ALL other genres, commercial & mainstream AND esoteric and obscure. P.S. You still have a right to your opinion. Just phrase it as an opinion, eh ...

I would like to see how polite is the people in a Rap forum with a 15 pages thread about Progressive Rock.

weetabix wrote: we have gone from the Beatles 'All you need is Love' to some rapper or hip hop artist  yelling "you crazy bitch"    too much anger for me. Benny Hill he was a fair rapper?

 And to think about all those Brit Blues bands and their warnings about the EVIL WOMAN  they heardd about second hand from the american black blues guys. Rap did not invent misogyny, nor does it have a monopoly on the subject matter.
Of course, as a way to give your brain a break from thinking, stereotypes are a great way out, eh.
Oh, BTW, you may want to go to the Beatles' Rubber Soul album, song # 14, written by that soon to be beatified peaceable saint, Johnny. Or, as a double bill, Check Mr recently divorced man's words On Sgt Pepper's "Getting Better".
OOPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's so easy to pick and choose the smallest piece of a vast body of work to prove what we want , whether or not that is really representative of the whole, if all we want to prove is that we have valid reasons to dismiss others' tastes as immoral. Unless you're a Republican, in which case, I have heard it genetically encoded.

I tried to like rap but I really can't understand this genre. Probably because it's the most simple form of music (no instruments and no singing).

For anti-sexist, anti-racist, anti-homophobic hip hop, try Consolidated.

p0mt3 wrote: Salvo_ wrote: Hahaha, rappers have no talent but Linkin Park do...   Um, if you are seriousely suggesting that you think gun-toting gansta wannabes hollering about how fast their cars are have more talent than rock musicians, I would have to say you and I are VERY different people,

Dalek knocked my socks off by the way. 

Exactly. I clearly don't really know what Rap really is. I'm simply basing my opinion of it on what I see on MTV and the like. Am I being a little shallow and unfair? Of course, but I guess all I'm saying is . . . I've never really had any desire to do much researchin the matter. I'm perfectly happy without hip-hop in my musical life, I'm not trying to knock you personally at all, honestly. It's just a preferance.