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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: April 27 2007 at 05:36 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ remember what happened to me when I mentioned the words "genius" and "Jon Bon Jovi" in the same sentence? |
I think you temporarily lost your sanity on that occasion!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65255
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Posted: April 27 2007 at 04:32 |
Bupie wrote:
The only thing is to keep a minimum respect for the bands because we should not forget that they create and we just criticise.
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FruMp
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 322
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Posted: April 27 2007 at 04:28 |
Tony R wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ remember what happened to me when I mentioned the words "genius" and "Jon Bon Jovi" in the same sentence? |
let's not go there.... |
Definately prog related...
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Bupie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2006
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 140
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Posted: April 27 2007 at 03:49 |
Sir Hogweed wrote:
I think all reviews should be honest. If a reviewer hates a classic album I would like him/her to be honest and subjective about it. That gives you, the reader, an indication about that reviewer's musical tastes and how they match with your own tastes. That way you know which reviews to ignore safely.
The same goes for ultra-positive reviews on albums that still have to be recorded ;-) |
Right. I think the only important think is to be honest with our reviews ... which in my case means to listen to the record entirely several times before writing, especially when it is a record that I don't like.
I read many times that people should not review albums that they don't like but I don't get why. I join with Sean Trane on that point (which is not often the case with his reviews ) : you need bad reviews to get this site useful to listeners. The only thing is to keep a minimum respect for the bands because we should not forget that they create and we just criticise.
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Sir Hogweed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 191
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 19:05 |
I think all reviews should be honest. If a reviewer hates a classic album I would like him/her to be honest and subjective about it. That gives you, the reader, an indication about that reviewer's musical tastes and how they match with your own tastes. That way you know which reviews to ignore safely.
The same goes for ultra-positive reviews on albums that still have to be recorded ;-)
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 17:24 |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 17:22 |
No, it is bad; I'm sure.
I'm not prolific regarding reviews. The few ones I've written are possibly unclear, it was a couple years ago and I had even less vocabulary that now. Anyway, it is rather impossible to be fair if you don't like something, but, leaving your preferences at rest for a minute sometimes allows you to see good things in something that you woulnd't normally listen. As for "review", listening to tons of music doesn't qualify anyone to make a meaning coment on the artistry. Fr that, one should gather a lot of info about art as a manifestation, in orther to be able to produce a concise analisis of the thing, and I won't.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 17:06 |
I don't really tend to review genres I strongly dislike (luckily there aren't many in my case, but there are still one or two), the review will ultimately reveal your personal bias against a genre and render the review fairly uninteresting to an interested party. The one example of this kind of thing in one of my reviews was an Enid anthology. The band are not to my taste, but I would have given it 3 stars which I think is a balanced view (I gave it 2 because the CD was so poorly encoded and didn't match up with the tracklisting). It might be seen as a cop-out, but that way you avoid offending people who love their music as in no way did I find it inherently 'bad'. However, I tire of these frequently iconoclastic reviews which have a personal agenda, trashing a much beloved and long-considered-classic in order to boost egos and get a cheap laugh.
Likewise, the idea that some prog albums are 'straight up crap' is an generalisation and it is certainly not factual that any album is automatically 'crap'. I could think of many albums which aren't too well regarded which I personally love, usually because they aren't always prog albums by prog bands.
I do tend to disregard many reviews of newly released albums here, though. How anybody can doll out 5 star reviews (some are being posted before the album has officially been released, for starters) in so short a time is beyond me. I tend to use other sites for new release reviews because, imho, SOME reviews (definitely not all) of new albums occasionally have the unbearable tone/flavour of the 'fanboy'.
I remember that Q list- what delighted me was that, for such an image conscious and self-proclaimed 'trendy' magazine, not one prog album was featured.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 16:52 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ remember what happened to me when I mentioned the words "genius" and "Jon Bon Jovi" in the same sentence? |
let's not go there....
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 16:52 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 16:48 |
^ remember what happened to me when I mentioned the words "genius" and "Jon Bon Jovi" in the same sentence?
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 16:47 |
mystic fred wrote:
"I would say William Shatner's album, but that's almost so bad it comes out the other side. "
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Transformed Man is a work of genius - it takes a special kind of appreciation.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 828
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 16:39 |
If I don't like an album, then it's bad. What's the problem?
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 15:25 |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 15:05 |
A review or rating can't be wrong.
And one need not take into account how others will apreciate an album.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 13:59 |
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coleio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 272
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 13:31 |
If you don't like what an album has been rated, do a review yourself and put your own opinion in there (about the album, no ranting at another reviewer).
If you haven't heard an album, but it's by your favourite band and it gets some bad reviews, so what? Buy the album yourself an have a listen to it, then again come post your own review and opinion. Simple no?
You don't like someones opinion then that's your own problem, it's entirely up to them. Free speech for everyone right?
There is no definitely good music, I don't like a lot of 'classic' albums, doesn't mean I think everyone else should think they're bad and likewise with bands I do like.
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Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!!
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Yontar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 131
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 13:17 |
altaeria wrote:
I understand that reviews are Subjective in nature...
but I find it silly when somebody trashes legitimately quality material.
We DO realize the difference between an actual BAD album
and one that just doesn't fit our tastes, DON'T WE?
Take, for instance, the 2-star reviews for "Sgt. Pepper's" ...
or those reviewers who simply dislike bands like VDGG or KC or ELP
and proceed to rate ALL their albums with 1 or 2 stars.
I get it. You don't like them ... but 1 star for "Brain Salad Surgery"?
Am I supposed to respect your reviews after that...on a Prog site??
It's just difficult to take that seriously--and I want to respect all reviewers.
So how could this sort of thing be sorted out ideally?
I think, in most cases, the problem lies with general GENRE preferences.
So maybe the ratings system could include extra selection buttons (besides the stars)
that look something like this:
O This is not my cup of tea ... I prefer Zeuhl
O This is not my cup of tea ... I prefer Symphonic
O This is not my cup of tea ... I prefer Progressive Metal
O This is not my cup of tea ... I prefer Post Rock
... etc.
and each album's page could show a total of the these responses.
Now, what would this accomplish?
First off --- It might help give readers an indication of
whether or not an album's style suits them before they even look at any reviews.
If a reader prefers ProgFolk ...
and the page shows that 17 other ProgFolk fans already checked that this album "wasn't their cup of tea"
it gives a pretty good indication that this will probably NOT be to the reader's liking either.
Second --- It could help keep some reviewers from looking downright silly.
I don't know about anybody else...
but I tend to NOT respect (and ultimately ignore) reviewers who bash top-notch stuff.
It's one thing to respectfully say that "Relayer" is litle busy or maybe disjointed, even for a Yes fan...
but it's hard for me to take you serious when you give it a "for collectors only" rating
(because, deep down, you prefer blues-based Psychedelia).
"For collectors only" ?? Collectors of what? We're still talking about Prog, right?
Wouldn't it make more sense to just check off the "I prefer Psychedelic" rating and move on.
Of course, I realize that this isn't even close to a perfect system...
but it could help keep unwarranted LOW ratings to a minimum.
i think every album you personally consider bad should get two stars for effort, but i mean come on there are some prog works that are straight up crap!
Not that I expect anything to change, though. I don't even know why I really care.
It must be my mild autism acting up again.
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i think there are some albums that don't fit my tastes, and i give those albums a two or three. But certain bands i just don't like all that much. Like pink floyd for example, most prog fans would say im nuts but i only gave them a two. Why? Because i don't think they are all that great. Not because they weren't influential or good musicians. Mostly just because i don't really like em alot. I mean personal preference is the sole purpose of reviewing. Just because a band did something innovative or big for a genre doesn't mean that you MUST listen to that band. Flat out, your personal rating for an album is a reflection of your perception of the album, not some prog biased run down conformist opinion.
Edited by Yontar - April 26 2007 at 13:22
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 13:13 |
altaeria wrote:
but I find it silly when somebody trashes legitimately quality material. |
There is no such thing as legitimately quality material. The fact that some people trash something that you think is legitimately quality material is proof enough. Obviously, in their opinion, the album they're trashing is not legitimately quality material. Just leave people's opinions alone, if you don't like some of them, ignore them.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: April 26 2007 at 12:24 |
No Prog here i hope!...
"The worst album in the world... ever!
Competition was intense, but Simon Le Bon and co have won pop's least coveted title
By Anthony Barnes, Arts and Media Correspondent
Published: 26 March 2006
It may have sounded like a winning formula at the time: a chart-topping band covering some of the most iconic songs of the past 30 years.
But Duran Duran's 1995 release Thank You, in which they paid tribute to the bands that had inspired them, has been given the dubious honour of being branded the worst album of all time.
With 12 tracks, including Lou Reed's "Perfect Day", Bob Dylan's "Lay Lady Lay", Elvis Costello's "Watching the Detectives" and The Doors' "Crystal Ship" - none of which was suited to their style of glossy pop - it is 54 minutes and 29 seconds of pure hell, according to music experts at Q magazine.
The track that prompted the most hoots of derision was their decision to tackle Public Enemy's "911 is a Joke" - originally an angry diatribe by militant rappers about the treatment of the black underclass in the US, which lost its power when performed by a group of middle-class white boys from Birmingham.
Other horrors that made Q's hall of shame included every solo Spice Girls album, given equal footing at number two in the chart. Chief among them must have been Victoria Beckham's attempts at pop credibility, one of many attempts at career resurrection.
Another that makes the list is Naomi Campbell's recording debut Baby Woman. The album was created by credible producers, including Youth and Tim Simenon, but even their input didn't get it into the top 75.
The deputy editor of Q, Gareth Grundy, said: "The list is a mixture of the unspeakable and those ridiculous acts of hubris, although we tried not to pick on the obvious soft targets.
"Duran Duran was the one that united everyone in agreement. We put it on in the office to remind ourselves how bad it was. Sometimes these things are redeemed by some sort of kitsch or novelty value, but it didn't even have that. It's not funny for even a split second and not even the sort of thing that you would put on for a laugh if you were drunk.
"It is abysmal on every level, as befits an album where you have Simon Le Bon trying to cover Public Enemy."
Even the studio engineer who worked on the Duran Duran project, Ken Scott, thought the worst-album accolade was a fair assessment. "I think it turned out pretty badly," he admitted.
Afterwards, the band described the album, which went to number 12 and clocked up a pitiful three weeks in the charts, as "commercial suicide".
As a result their next effort did not get an official release in the UK. Cover versions are a common theme in Q's top 10. It also includes Urban Renewal, a collection of Phil Collins songs performed by credible hip-hop acts, and Westlife's attempt to cover some of Frank Sinatra's hits.
TOP 10 WORST
Duran Duran
Thank You "DOWNRIGHT INSULTING"
Spice Girls
Any of their solo albums "WRETCHED"
Various Artists
Urban Renewal "WORSE THAN THE ORIGINAL"
Lou Reed
Metal Machine Music "TOSS"
Billy Idol
Cyberpunk "RISIBLE"
Naomi Campbell
Baby Woman "GOBSMACKING HUBRIS"
Kevin Rowland
My Beauty "HIDEOUSLY MAWKISH"
Mick Jagger
Primitive Cool "SOULLESS FUNK-ROCK"
Westlife
Allow Us to Be Frank "AN UNCALLED-FOR MAULING"
Tin Machine
Tin Machine II "A DISASTER"
AND OTHERS...
DJ MARK RADCLIFFE nominates Metal Machine Music, by Lou Reed: "I would say William Shatner's album, but that's almost so bad it comes out the other side. Metal Machine Music is not one, but two albums of unlistenable noise, so technically it's twice as bad. I think Lou Reed would be quite proud of it being the worst album ever."
Edited by mystic fred - April 26 2007 at 12:26
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