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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 03:06 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
^^^^Anyway this thread is about Split Enz, not Devo or Talking Heads (neither whom I think are prog. It was a slight digression about Devo and Talking Heads, Split Enz only had something in common with these bands when they became a full fledged pop band, prior to that they were more like Roxy Music. |
They were more prog in their five first albums than Roxy was ever . (with the possible exception of their second For Your Pleasure). |
Well, actually For your pleasure is the only Roxy album I've got and heard fully  . |
Ditto!
To be truthfull I don't like the others and this include their debut album. But Once Eno was out, they became completely uninteresting.
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Cheesecakemouse
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 00:16 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
^^^^Anyway this thread is about Split Enz, not Devo or Talking Heads (neither whom I think are prog. It was a slight digression about Devo and Talking Heads, Split Enz only had something in common with these bands when they became a full fledged pop band, prior to that they were more like Roxy Music. |
They were more prog in their five first albums than Roxy was ever . (with the possible exception of their second For Your Pleasure). |
Well, actually For your pleasure is the only Roxy album I've got and heard fully  .
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micky
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Posted: February 14 2007 at 06:35 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
^^^^Anyway this thread is about Split Enz, not
Devo or Talking Heads (neither whom I think are prog. It was a slight
digression about Devo and Talking Heads, Split Enz only had
something in common with these bands when they became a full fledged
pop band, prior to that they were more like Roxy Music. |
I know.... personally I think the Talking Heads should be here... the
new wave connection doesn't put me off at all. My thoughts on
that are well known  Checking out their earlier albums... this is being discussed in the collab area. To be honest..I like it's chances..
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 20414
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Posted: February 14 2007 at 03:39 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
^^^^Anyway this thread is about Split Enz, not Devo or Talking Heads (neither whom I think are prog. It was a slight digression about Devo and Talking Heads, Split Enz only had something in common with these bands when they became a full fledged pop band, prior to that they were more like Roxy Music. |
They were more prog in their five first albums than Roxy was ever . (with the possible exception of their second For Your Pleasure).
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Cheesecakemouse
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 22:52 |
^^^^Anyway this thread is about Split Enz, not Devo or Talking Heads (neither whom I think are prog. It was a slight digression about Devo and Talking Heads, Split Enz only had something in common with these bands when they became a full fledged pop band, prior to that they were more like Roxy Music.
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micky
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 15:55 |
spills Diet Coke in lap.
hahaha.. yeah you've got some nerve... Lang ... people like you
that supported Zeppelin here really should keep your mouth shut
about opposing these kinds of addtions. You know.. and I know the
real reason why Zepplein is here.... it isn't for their damn
music.
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Raff
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 15:43 |
S Lang wrote:
Split Enz, Devo, Talking Heads, Ultravox talked about.
I am wondering if it's PA, or my browser was hijacked...? |
Very funny.  Pity that some people have the same opinion when seeing Led Zeppelin listed on a prog website....  Edit: This thread needs to be moved to Suggest New Bands/Artists.
Edited by Ghost Rider - February 13 2007 at 15:45
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Cheesecakemouse
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 15:31 |
Pretty accurater review Seantrane, Phil Judd does sound like the guy out of family, but I do think Eddie Rayner is a virtuoso on the keyboards. I'd give Mental Notes 4 stars as well, I hope that more admin/collabs will give Mental Notes a shot. One of the reasons they regressed was that Phil Judd went a little mad and left the band so Neil Finn took his place, Neil isn't a virtuoso by any strech of the imagination and so they had to simplify the music a bit more. Tim also made a couple of dumb decisions they made them a little more pop, like firing Emlyn Crowther; who was influenced by Bill Bfuford, Tim fired him becaise he wanted them to sound more pop.
By the way Sean, have you heard of a band called Schnell Fenster, Phil Judd formed it after the demise of Split Enz with ex-enz members, I don't know how proggy or pop they were, but one of these days I will have to investigate them.
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Sean Trane
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 06:47 |
S Lang wrote:
Split Enz, Devo, Talking Heads, Ultravox talked about.
I am wondering if it's PA, or my browser was hijacked...? |
Hang on, Pre-78 SE and Post-80 SE is a bit like Pre-W&W Genesis and Post-Duke Genesis. They have absolutely no common musical grounds.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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S Lang
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:02 |
Split Enz, Devo, Talking Heads, Ultravox talked about.
I am wondering if it's PA, or my browser was hijacked...?
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Sean Trane
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Posted: February 13 2007 at 03:32 |
Split Enz – Mental Notes   .5 (almost four)
I was always a bit confused whether this was the first album or would it be the infamous The Beginning Of The Enz would hold that honour. In either case, this is among the first few records that are likely to interest the progheads, as opposed to their mid-period early 80’s, when the had regressed and became a new wave electro-pop group. This group is mainly the works of a duo Tim Finn (vocals and piano) and Phil Judd (vocals and guitars) which shared most (if not all the songwriting credits), but interestingly enough neither were lead instrumentalists since Wilkinson and Rayner held top solo slots on guitars and keyboards respectively. SE is a septet, but outside a percussionist, there are no wind instruments to spice things up, but their style is sufficiently eclectic, that there is no real need for it.
The music is a relatively good, inventive art rock with a fairly noticeable pop inspiration. Somewhere stuck between Rundgren’s Utopia and the Queen, 10 CC, sharing a bit the frenzy, spastic and silly world of those. But if the music has a solid pop vein and none of the group members seem to be ultra virtuoso at their respective instruments, there is plenty of place for musical interplay and the frequent use of a mellotron often gives a cool symphonic edge to their music. In this regard, the almost 8-min Under The Wheel is probably one of the highlights, especially if you enjoy weird screechy crazy vocals (ala Family’s Roger Chapman). This track could’ve almost been written and played by Gabriel-era Genesis, because the guitar does resemble a certain Steve at times. Another very interesting tune for progheads is the almost 7-min Stranger Than Fiction with the strange and spooky birdsong ambiances, and bridging directly to the next poppier Time For A Change.
Other (shorter) tracks like Amy or So Long For Now are poppier even if there interesting twists and the Maybe and short Titus tracks all present plenty of proggy moments to satisfy most of us. Spellbound is another crazy beauty even if by the end of the album, the Chapman-vocals are getting a tad tiresome.
Clearly, Spilt Enz was on a roll as they would be until the end of the decade, pumping a bunch of good popish Art Rock, but sadly their regression into the next decade is one all progheads are aware of since it happened to some of the legends of the prog movement. But in the meantime, we are left with a string of albums that are, if not essential, very worthy of the proghead’s attentions. And among this string of albums, this one is maybe the most interesting one (but not the only one) and it could fit as perfect intro.
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Posted: February 12 2007 at 18:52 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
richardh wrote:
Presumably all sorts of bands from the late seventies could potentially be included? How about Ultravox (with John Fox) or The Stranglers even? That time was quite experimental although the bands were seen as opposing prog/stadium rock bands like Yes and ELP.
So is there such a thing as 'new wave prog' or 'punk prog' despite the apparent contradiction? |
There is a style called Art punk, Devo was under that style, and Talking Heads started in that way but went beyond that when Brian Eno became their producer. |
Re : Talking Heads, if you take into consideration that prog is often considered pompous by others, I would say the Talking Heads head space was located in the pompous part of the inbreeding New York culture critique clique. Or to re-phrase that quote justifying Velvet Underground's "importance" to rock music - "Not too many people bought their albums, but those who did went on to become rock critics".  P.S. I have a friend who thinks the world of TH, & he is very intelligent; so if I offend anyone, I must say it's IMHO, & I have much to be humble about. P.P.S. at least Devo had a sense of humor; for a while anyway.
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Cheesecakemouse
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Posted: February 10 2007 at 16:37 |
richardh wrote:
Presumably all sorts of bands from the late seventies could potentially be included? How about Ultravox (with John Fox) or The Stranglers even? That time was quite experimental although the bands were seen as opposing prog/stadium rock bands like Yes and ELP.
So is there such a thing as 'new wave prog' or 'punk prog' despite the apparent contradiction? |
There is a style called Art punk, Devo was under that style, and Talking Heads started in that way but went beyond that when Brian Eno became their producer.
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richardh
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Posted: February 10 2007 at 03:42 |
PROGMAN wrote:
Gary Numan has had his prog moments too, listen to "ASYLUM" from a Pleasure Principle. |
I'm also convinced that Tubeway Army - Replicas is a prog album in its entirety.
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Cheesecakemouse
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Posted: February 09 2007 at 00:52 |
Time & Tide was b4 Conflicting Emotions, their last listenable album, actually Haul away is heavily influenced by a Gentle Giant song on the album Free Hand. I think Time and Tide is an ok album, the band members consider it their best album, a great AOR album, but if Enz was on this website I'd give it only 3 stars because it is not that proggy. But yes it certainly is a very personal album and I guess Pioneer/Six Months in a Leaky Boat is a mini prog song.
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Posted: February 09 2007 at 00:44 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Hi Michael,
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide, Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
But upon listening to three of their first four:
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77), Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
However from true Colours onwards .....  Yuckkkk!!!!....
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Cool I'm glad you've taken the time to find out, many people make that mistake about Enz being just a New Wave band but when you look at their earlier catalogue when they had a rich and colourful history in prog. They actually in the earlier days performed a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede unfortunately they never rleased a studio version of it, you can only get a live version of it on a super expensive boxed set,. but yeah they definately deserve a place in prog related. |
Since that post of mine, I am on their debut called Mental Notes (76 also) and this is their proggiest of them all.
Funny how they regressed voluntarily in the 80's, though. they became an electro-pop band.
Anyway, now if there was a poll, I'd probably say yes to prog-related. |
I did make a poll for them in the suggest bands place, it was pretty inconclusive since it focussed on their 70s recordings and most people are are unaware of that period.
And with Enz regressing to pop the sad fact of the matter was nobody was buying their albums, twice the band almost completely collapsed, Phil Judd went a bit crazy and left, so it was up to Tim Finn to guide them and during the hostlie period to prog they had to basically become pop out of survival, its impossible to be a band in NZ that only has a cult following in NZ and Australia since both countries have very low populations and therefore record sales are low as a result, because of that I an sympathetic to them going pop unlike Genesis who were still making money being prog.
Sean you should get their DVD, their early music videos are really bizarre and it has some live clips of their earlier over the top shows, or else I guess there is youtube.
But for me personally I think they jumped the shark at conflicting emotions (boy that album sucks) , before that even when they were pop they still had a bit of the left over wackiness from early days. Oh well thats my opinion. |
I would like to ask that you give Time & Tide another listen. Of all the Split Enz albums, it is the most serious, both in lyrical & musical content. If you listen to album ending trilogy - Haul Away, Log Cabin & Make sense of it, you'll find it hard to describe it as new wave or plain pop. It's haunting, personal & thought provoking ...
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Cheesecakemouse
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Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:36 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Hi Michael,
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide, Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
But upon listening to three of their first four:
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77), Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
However from true Colours onwards .....  Yuckkkk!!!!....
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Cool I'm glad you've taken the time to find out, many people make that mistake about Enz being just a New Wave band but when you look at their earlier catalogue when they had a rich and colourful history in prog. They actually in the earlier days performed a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede unfortunately they never rleased a studio version of it, you can only get a live version of it on a super expensive boxed set,. but yeah they definately deserve a place in prog related. |
Since that post of mine, I am on their debut called Mental Notes (76 also) and this is their proggiest of them all.
Funny how they regressed voluntarily in the 80's, though. they became an electro-pop band.
Anyway, now if there was a poll, I'd probably say yes to prog-related. |
I did make a poll for them in the suggest bands place, it was pretty inconclusive since it focussed on their 70s recordings and most people are are unaware of that period.
And with Enz regressing to pop the sad fact of the matter was nobody was buying their albums, twice the band almost completely collapsed, Phil Judd went a bit crazy and left, so it was up to Tim Finn to guide them and during the hostlie period to prog they had to basically become pop out of survival, its impossible to be a band in NZ that only has a cult following in NZ and Australia since both countries have very low populations and therefore record sales are low as a result, because of that I an sympathetic to them going pop unlike Genesis who were still making money being prog.
Sean you should get their DVD, their early music videos are really bizarre and it has some live clips of their earlier over the top shows, or else I guess there is youtube.
But for me personally I think they jumped the shark at conflicting emotions (boy that album sucks) , before that even when they were pop they still had a bit of the left over wackiness from early days. Oh well thats my opinion.
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chopper
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Posted: February 08 2007 at 16:50 |
fandango wrote:
chopper wrote:
Despite the best efforts of Cheesecakemouse, Split Enz have been rejected for inclusion in PA. |
I think he should be sentenced to six months on a leaky boat, for even suggesting them...  |
Very witty.
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Posted: February 08 2007 at 12:12 |
chopper wrote:
Despite the best efforts of Cheesecakemouse, Split Enz have been rejected for inclusion in PA. |
I think he should be sentenced to six months on a leaky boat, for even suggesting them... 
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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chopper
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Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:43 |
Despite the best efforts of Cheesecakemouse, Split Enz have been rejected for inclusion in PA.
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