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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 00:19
This is a PR stunt whether intentional or not at this point, lmao.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 22:34
Imagine if this story instead involved Roger Waters. Game over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 06:59
Personally I'm fine with the now well evidenced idea that Downes may really and honestly have thought it was his own. Pity of course that there's no crime story and villain there, but very nice to have an explanation what happened that does Francis Monkman justice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 06:30
What a silly story this has become. And what a fiasco for Yes, recently claiming that their next album would be all new material, and then teasing it with a track written in 1977 which appears to be a cover!

Monkman must be LHAO. I hope for Yes that they haven't printed all the booklets and other liner notes yet...

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 05:54
Well, I hope Downes and Monkman are able to work out a royalties agreement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 04:38
Interesting. Just a mistake with Downes thinking it was an old composition of his. I wonder whether Monkman will be added for writing credit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Artik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 04:14
To anyone interrsted it's cleared. Mr Monkman wrote it. 

In His words: "Geoff has supplied an mp3 of the cassette (with a cue sheet
from his then-company HMM) and it's clearly a copy of our recording of
"Dawn of an Era". Aaron Harry, then at Bruton, tells me that they sent
round a few copies of tracks (presumably as-yet untitled) after the
recordings were made (in Summer, 1977 at Lansdowne Studios). On the cue
sheet it's simply entitled 'library track', while all Geoff's pieces and
ideas that precede it have a 'GDxx' tag (xx being a two digit number).
So there really doesn't seem to be any doubt about it - a simple mistake
so no hard feelings (hope Yes fans feel the same!)."

"I do actually remember writing it Smile HMM added it to the end of his tape, without making it clear"

quotations from page 20 and 22 here: https://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/27511-New-YES-album-quot-The-Quest-quot-out-1-Oct/page20


Edited by Artik - July 27 2021 at 04:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 00:40
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I read years ago, and I can't find the source now, that Steve Howe was originally inspired by the Big Valley theme song for that section. I don't know who the source was and how reputable they were. And really, that pattern in the intro to the song has certainly had numerous variations that sound similar. Its not particularly unique, except in the context that Yes adapted it. 



Interesting. I recall Bill Bruford saying in multiple interviews that the intro to "Yours Is No Disgrace" was directly inspired by the theme from Bonanza, but I personally never thought it sounded similar to that, unlike this theme. Now I'm wondering if he just remembered the wrong Western TV show somehow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 23:07
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Wouldn't quite be the first time.

The opening to "Yours is No Disgraced" is borrowed from the theme to "Grandstand," a BBC sports program (listen at thirteen seconds in).


Same rhythm but not the same notes.

This source speaks quite a bit about the Western TV show influence on their music including "Yours is No Disgrace," mentioning Howe, Anderson and Bruford. 


Steve refers to the Western TV show theme influence about 1:00 in...




Edited by cstack3 - July 26 2021 at 23:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 22:28
this is all a pitiful joke at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 21:33
The old TV show UFO from 1970 had a different theme song. Episode were compiled and repackaged for a movie called Invasion: UFO in 1980. Instead of using the original theme, it used the Monkman track. No lifting was done from the TV show. Adding to this is that Downes claims he wrote and put the original music on a showreel for library music in 1977. Monkman's album was released in 1978 on a label specializing in library music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 20:55
I didn't know the song was inspired by an old tv show. What I've been hearing elsewhere is that the song is "lifted" or "inspired" from an old tune by Francis Monkman. So maybe he stole it from the old British tv show first. 





Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 26 2021 at 21:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 19:50
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Comedic Relief:

https://www.reddit.com/r/yesbandcirclejerk/comments/oqhjrs/woah_new_yes_track_just_dropped_i_hope_this_one/




LOL  Jon Davison sounds much better on here... although it does make me think of another tune...


I agree about Davison, I think he is letting go of trying to imitate Jon Anderson and singing in his own style. 

This bit of JD's vocals reminds me of his vocal work on Glass Hammer's "Perilous," my favorite CD by that band. 

Downes, on the other hand, remains bad as always.  


I also found Davison's singing much better on this one. As you say, perhaps he's finally doing his own stuff instead of trying to imitate Anderson... there was sort of the same thing with Benoit, live he did seem to be strugling, but once he did the studio album without trying to reach some previously achieved notes, his singing really sounded so much more beautiful. Only, why didn't Davison achieve it on Heaven and Earth?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 17:18
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I read years ago, and I can't find the source now, that Steve Howe was originally inspired by the Big Valley theme song for that section. I don't know who the source was and how reputable they were. And really, that pattern in the intro to the song has certainly had numerous variations that sound similar. Its not particularly unique, except in the context that Yes adapted it.

Jon Anderson told that same story in his live "Voice of Yes" show in the Chicago suburbs, 5 August 2011.  He gave a very enthusiastic telling of that story, even pretending to be riding a horse like a charging cowboy!   The way Jon told it, they were all inspired by the song, not just Howe.  

Thank you for verifying. Good to know I am staving off dementia, so far.

Happy to help!  I recorded this clip at the same show, Jon was brilliant! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 15:50
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I read years ago, and I can't find the source now, that Steve Howe was originally inspired by the Big Valley theme song for that section. I don't know who the source was and how reputable they were. And really, that pattern in the intro to the song has certainly had numerous variations that sound similar. Its not particularly unique, except in the context that Yes adapted it.

Jon Anderson told that same story in his live "Voice of Yes" show in the Chicago suburbs, 5 August 2011.  He gave a very enthusiastic telling of that story, even pretending to be riding a horse like a charging cowboy!   The way Jon told it, they were all inspired by the song, not just Howe.  

Thank you for verifying. Good to know I am staving off dementia, so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog Zone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 15:17
It's definitely an improvement over Heaven and Earth, but that doesn't say too much. 

Edited by Prog Zone - July 26 2021 at 15:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 14:22
It's a decent track. I like it. That's enough for me!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 12:29
after many listens I know it won't hold my interest for long---it also sounds like they ripped off the Game of Thrones theme LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cinema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2021 at 08:35
Wow, it really is IDENTICAL to the Invasion: UFO theme. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog Zone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2021 at 23:54
Due to all the controversy surrounding Yes's "plagiarism" of Francis Monkman's The Dawn Of An Era, I thought it would be a good idea to suggest him as a new artist on the archives. Not exactly sure on his genre, but at this point I think he best fits in the Electronic Prog category. Fingers crossed!
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