Ok. Which is superior ?

rogerthat wrote: M27Barney wrote: Aye. DSOTM...is better produced an far more commercial, since it still sells...but so did abbey rd by the scouse insects and Thriller by that strange geezer.... Of course its a subjective call on whether or not it is crossover prog, AOR, art rock or plain pop...but I still rate every minute of Foxtrot > every minute of DSOTM....as most symphonic prog connoseurs would....😎 And on cue, just when I said this has descended to the level of The Beatles are overrated thread, you confirm this.  Thanks much.

If you mean the concept of that topic, that was done rather tongue-in-cheek and as I said The Beatles was intended to be by way of example, and the title was intended to be provocative. I had hoped in that topic to really have a nuanced discussion on notions of overratedness, and have some absurdist humour, but it didn't go quite as planned (I would like to think that I seem reasonably open-minded in my posts generally). As is said in that topic, it was a reaction to people liberally throwing around terms such as overrated, underrated, best, superior, so I see my little thought-experiment as very different from the approach of this thread. Having spoken so much about such issues in the forum, I thought more people would get where I was coming from.

From a discussion point of view, I thought there was plenty of good fun, interesting posts, and vibrant discussion in the topic, and I appreciated the contributions, including your own. I wasn't really disagreeing with you in it, just coming from a different angle, and sometimes I do play devil's advocate. Different perspectives can be valid, and I like to try to think rather outside of the box (come at things from oblique angles). I guess it can be frustrating. I too often have felt frustrated at boards, but ultimately if I think we are coming together as friends, and really listening to each other, acting respectfully and showing some tolerance and patience, I don't really mind.

By the way,I have really appreciated your presence at the board rogerthat. You do make many really interesting posts, and it doesn't matter if the feeling is not reciprocated as I recognise my own stupidity all too well, and I do get more and more stupid every year.

I enjoyed the discussion, and I feel like various people made genuinely interesting contributions. A good topic should challenge your thinking a bit, and offer different perspectives, and have some good-natured humour sprinkled about generally for my tastes (makes it fun and more socially rewarding for me), and for me that did. My very favourite discussions lead to a synthesis of ideas, while having some humour thrown in to boot. A thread is only as enjoyable as the conversation in it is for me, and for me it was enjoyable and not really a failed experiment even if it didn't quite go as I planned (partially because of adding the poll, which was just for fun). I wouldn't say that I have really created many quality topics or contributed much of value to other peoples topics,and there's something to be said for only focusing on the very best posts and the most interesting of topics, but that's one thread of many, many abject fails that I was rather pleased with from a discussion point of view. My other favourites were my Bertrand Russsell Liberal Decalogue one, my weird folk one, my Christian Vander vs. Chuck Schuldiner one, and my Fugue of the Death Grunters ones.

Thanks for participating in that thread, and sorry if it wasn't sophisticated enough for some tastes. For some who might lament the lack of intellectualism and rationality at the forum with various topics, perhaps create more topics that demonstrate a high level of rationalism and erudition and focus on the most scholastic and cultivated of posts instead of going for the most ignorant, narrow-minded and unrefined of posts. While a thread is a collection of posts and generally should be judged holistically, rather than just the conceit of the topic, I apologise if my premise was ill-thought out and intellectually bereft. As the "host" of that thread, I am totally to blame. A good host should try to make sure that the guests are comfortable, are being well-served, and are having a good time.

Take care. By the way, my wife likes to say to me, "Think first before you speak, then don't speak at all." Sage advice; that's why I love her. I know she only ever really married me for my body.

Edited by Logan - April 06 2020 at 09:49

^ That's because a "connoisseur" is an expert in matters of taste. A "connoseur"? Not so much.

M27Barney wrote: Aye. DSOTM...is better produced an far more commercial, since it still sells...but so did abbey rd by the scouse insects and Thriller by that strange geezer.... Of course its a subjective call on whether or not it is crossover prog, AOR, art rock or plain pop...but I still rate every minute of Foxtrot > every minute of DSOTM....as most symphonic prog connoseurs would....😎

So do I but that has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. DSotM will enact the initial interest, not Foxtrot.

Edited by SteveG - April 06 2020 at 06:19

Aye. DSOTM...is better produced an far more commercial, since it still sells...but so did abbey rd by the scouse insects and Thriller by that strange geezer....
Of course its a subjective call on whether or not it is crossover prog, AOR, art rock or plain pop...but I still rate every minute of Foxtrot > every minute of DSOTM....as most symphonic prog connoseurs would....😎

Lewian wrote: I don't get the bit about "deception" and masses thinking they get into the "hard stuff". Isn't it just what it is? And I think it got the people because they liked it and could relate to it, not because they'd want to brag about listening to something sophisticated and "hard stuff"... That some went on starting to appreciate more complex stuff because of it is a nice bonus but surely not the album's raison d'etre.

So prog is basically a sport?
It’s not about how the music sounds and makes you feel but rather more importantly whether or not it’s prog proper.


Nahh...I know what it is. Every major rock album out there received some form of backlash by certain folks who deem it crap/soft/unoriginal/etc...just ask The Beatles....and well Dark Side is almost universally loved from here to Timbuktu...and when folks then prefer Foxtrot or Yeti for that matter - albums far less known to the general public - it quickly becomes a mudslinging match where instead of mentioning why X album is brilliant...it turns into X album is great because Y is sh*t. Nothing is just brilliant anymore...it needs to be great in spite of something else...preferably with a sly sting to the kidneys: the music you love is crap!
Here I can prove it: a+k does not equal prog. Now how can it be any good?

^ haha...anyway..yesterday was indoors date night and her indoors was cooking lamb shank...whilst she was upstairs preparing her wardrobe (stepping one beyond your show)...I asked Aleksa to play DSOTM (my aleksa is paired to my v. Expensive wireless soundbar n surround sound oojimy-whatsit...I drank hobgoblin and took in the music...I had forgotten the tangerine dream bit...bit still enjoyed the VCS in any colour...but that horrible female singer got on my tits and I dont like saxophone...the last track would be epic with a monster guitar solo instead of that horrible female backing singer...2 stars...😎 and genre....curates egg...prog in parts perhaps...

Mortte wrote: Who really cares what´s progressive and what´s not? At least I don´t. Great albums are great albums, whatever genre they are.

Pink Floyd used part of the proceeds from Dark Side of the Moon to fund the production of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.