Do you support universal healthcare?

SentimentalMercenary wrote: KoS wrote: Leningrad wrote: J-Man wrote: No. Not at all. Why should I have to pay for other people's problems? Next thing that's coming is communism. I'm watching Obama destroy America one bill at a time. You are the reason that so many people are shot in revolutions No, they are the reason Bush was elected twice.. Okaaaayy so because we disagree with socialism it means that we support Bush and stuff?

No, when you make comments like " the next thing that's coming is communism" it makes you look like a dumbass.  I don't like how Obama is handling things either(he's too reactionary), but comments like aren't saying anything.  Socialism has nothing to with anything really. Bush and the Neo-cons supported a lot more legislation that is socialist of nature than Obama.

I would just like to say that my political views are more libertarian than anything else.


Edited by KoS - August 30 2009 at 20:19

I support 'as needed' healthcare, but not quite universal, for the reasons mentioned above: some health spoending is discretionary and should be privately funded (dentistry, for example). And I'd appreciate it if some of our contributors thought outside their own country's boundaries when contributing.

J-Man wrote: No. Not at all. Why should I have to pay for other people's problems? Next thing that's coming is communism. I'm watching Obama destroy America one bill at a time.

Windhawk wrote: KoS wrote: Grossly overpaid? yeah, 10+ years of schooling, thousands of dollars in debt, incredible stress, seems to me that they deserve to be highly paid. Yeah, that's not the issue. I don't have problems with docs earning, say,  100.000 dollars a year. It's the select few closing in on 200.000 or above I think earn just a tad too much ;-)

Everyone makes the amount they make because of supply and demand, if youre going to complain about that at least complain about professional athletes or something, not doctors

J-Man wrote: I'm watching Obama destroy America one bill at a time.

Re: legislative process.

Padraic wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: Doctors in the US are essentially private businessmen.  They go to school and have to foot the bill themselves (grants aside) like most anyone else.  They have to invest money in beginning a practice.  Etc. What if, for whatever reason, people no longer decided to become physicians and nurses anymore?  Folks just decided the field isn't profitable enough to get into (or wasn't interesting- again, whatever reason). Well, enjoy your next career as a Wal-Mart greeter or a fast food employee. Seriously it must be nice to have the luxury to be able invest all that time and money in a career and just quit. Uh, I think Rob meant people deciding not to enter the medical profession in the first place, i.e. not going to medical school.

Yeah, you're right, I misread that.  What more profitable enough fields are they going to go into instead?  What if most jobs meant a paycheck that most people can't live off of?  What if the standard of living for most folks were under attack from those with the most power and money?  What if the regulations that were put into place to keep the economy from going whack were dismantled so that those at the top were able to accumulate vast amounts of wealth at the expense of the people that really do work hard for a living?

Sorry about that, I should have moved it over to the economical discussion thread, though the two do intertwine.


Edited by Slartibartfast - August 30 2009 at 14:11

Windhawk wrote: We have universal health care here in Scandinavia. Here in Norway we need to cover some minor fees as well, but not to the extent that many are blocked out of using the system. And anything serious will be treated no matter if you have the money or not. Here as in many other countries some doctors are grossly overpaid - that's a system fault it's hard to do something about - but apart from that it's a pretty good system. And I find it increasingly strange to know that there are western countries against this kind of system in this day and age.

Grossly overpaid?
yeah, 10+ years of schooling, thousands of dollars in debt, incredible stress,
seems to me that they deserve to be highly paid.

We have universal health care here in Scandinavia. Here in Norway we need to cover some minor fees as well, but not to the extent that many are blocked out of using the system.
And anything serious will be treated no matter if you have the money or not.

Here as in many other countries some doctors are grossly overpaid - that's a system fault it's hard to do something about - but apart from that it's a pretty good system.

And I find it increasingly strange to know that there are western countries against this kind of system in this day and age.

Epignosis wrote: Paint the town red!

With beer, I'd have to guess.

Edited by Slartibartfast - August 30 2009 at 12:46

Epignosis wrote: I've written novels from time to time, and this subject always made me wonder... Doctors in the US are essentially private businessmen.  They go to school and have to foot the bill themselves (grants aside) like most anyone else.  They have to invest money in beginning a practice.  Etc. What if, for whatever reason, people no longer decided to become physicians and nurses anymore?  Folks just decided the field isn't profitable enough to get into (or wasn't interesting- again, whatever reason). What would our government's course of action be in such a scenario (especially with a national health care system)?  Institute a mandatory draft in which certain people are forced into medical school? Just one of those weird "what if" ideas that came to me.

This is certainly a very intriguing (and possibly chilling) idea. I can't speak for the US but in the UK the practice of medicine is still seen as a 'calling' and not purely a 'career choice' by most of its General Practitioners (and similarly with the nursing profession to a certain extent). But yes, as you remark, this happy state of affairs rests upon the continuing altruism of those entering the profession (and let's face it here in Australia where I now live there is a shortage of Doctors which is currently addressed by attracting GPs from overseas) These people work obscenely long hours due to staff shortages and no amount of remuneration will ever recompense an individual for the loss of precious free time with their own loved ones.

Although the healthcare system in the UK is far from perfect it does have two constituent parts which seem to be mutually beneficial i.e the Private Sector attracts the wealthier patients who wish to avoid what can be long waiting times in the Public Sector (NHS) for non-life threatening operations and this takes some of the strain off the limited resources of the latter.

I think this compromise solution works reasonably well and for some of the reasons you have outlined above, is infinitely preferable to an exclusively private or public route.

It is sadly inevitable that some people will always abuse whatever liberties and rights you grant them, but this fact alone does not sanction the creation of a control system designed to quantify the moral worthiness of recipients.

Epignosis, you are already a recording artist and a novelist, do you paint as well ?