Add Buckethead? |
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Luna
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 28 2010 Location: Funky Town Status: Offline Points: 12794 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 21:47 | ||
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 21:29 | ||
It's all bullsh*t. Regarding Prog Related addition/ rejection games, the whole story about "influence of non prog band on prog band" is false and serves only for moderators to manipulate. Just my two cents. Edited by Svetonio - December 23 2013 at 21:46 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 19:29 | ||
It's a waste of time to explain what you don't want to listen but here it goes: 1.- The Who: Are the fathers of Rock Opera (There was a Rock opera before them, but the term was coined for Tommy), they were one of the first bands top break with the 2:30 minutes per song limit and whoever says that QUADROPHENIA is not a Conceptual Prog Album, doesn't know a word about Prog. 2.- Led Zeppelin: If it was only for John Paul Jones arrangements, they would deserve to be here, but they created a new sound that evolved from Blues Based Rock to everywhere. They were the main influence for bands like Rush and that alone makes them deserve a place here. 3.- Uriah Heep: Wow pal, if you don't consider July Morning, Tears in My Eyes, Look at Yourself, The Magicians Birthday (whole album) plus Demons & Wizards (Whole album) Prog.....You must be the only guy in the Prog listening universe. The blend of Hammond, wah wah guitars and Thain's bass created a thick atmosphere that can be compared with Genesis. 4.- Queen...A Day at the Races and A Night at the Opera don't ring a bell for you? 5.- Bowie: If it wasn't for him and Arthur Brown, all the theatric Prog would had hardly existed. 6.- IMO Iron Maiden should be in Prog Metal, that's how influential they are. 7.- Mettalica; I was against their inclusion, but I'm a big boy, when they were accepted, I shut up. I don't mess with Electronic, but if Phillippe says they are Prog, they must be, because he's more selective than Dean and myself together...For God's sake, he rejected Vangelis I don't understand most of Math/Post rock so i don't question the experts And even if all of them were wrongly added (Not the case), one mistake doesn't justify another mistake. I will ask you something: If you hit a door and get a purple eye ...Do you hit the door with the other eye to make it even? I hope you don't. Well, if a band is added by mistake, we don't add another one that shouldn't be here to make it even. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 23 2013 at 19:33 |
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15254 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 17:33 | ||
Hey Dean, thanks for the clear, concise and profound summary of how everything works here and for understanding that i wasn't TRYING to be arrogant or anything of the sort. I vote you put that explanation where everyone can read it BEFORE they suggest bands. I, myself, have suggested a couple that i would reconsider now after chatting in this forum section for a while. Buckethead i will continue to defend as not prog-related but actual prog. I'm over with that on this forum and if the times comes up again i will lend a hand (or an ear) to the process.
However, why aren't the MAMAS AND THE PAPAS here? Just kidding! I swear |
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 17:22 | ||
Although my English is very poor I'll try to explain to you the facts. When I went here, the bands were added in Prog Related section if they were recorded "at least one album which is 100% Prog". Later on, it has changed into "No musical genre exists in a vacuum. Not all the bands that have been a part of history and development of progressive rock are necessarily progressive rock bands themselfs. This is why progarchives has included a genre called Prog Related, so we could include all the bands that complete the history of progressive rock, whether or not they were considered full-fledged progressive rock bands themselfs. (...)" Buckethead fullfills both of those two requirements. Also, as this poll showed as well, a number of PA members like to see Buckethead added. There are a number of relevant websites who tagged Buckethead progressive. Imho, it's just enough for Prog Related. Btw, I know that some people really believe in the story that Buckethead has no connection / influence on other prog artist, but I personally don't buy that story. Sorry, I think it's trivia that was invented to serve a small group of privileged moderators for rejection or to add an artist that they think that should be in Prog Related section.
Edited by Svetonio - December 23 2013 at 22:11 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 15:49 | ||
I know English isn't your first language. It's the only way I can fathom such a complete failure of reading comprehension.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 15:42 | ||
Add to your list also The Who, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, Queen, David Bowie, Wishbone Ash, Rainbow, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Primus, Tantalus, Magna Carta, Toy Matinee ... Also add to your list those whole sections of progressive electronic and post/math rock. Oups, I just forget that they are already here Edited by Svetonio - December 23 2013 at 16:00 |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 13:44 | ||
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13634 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 13:38 | ||
Right, that's it! I'm suggesting The Mac for inclusion right away
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 11:57 | ||
It is my sincerest wish that Sventonio is never put in a position of responsibility here, he clearly lacks any understanding of this site or any discernment of what is required here. I recommend that he spends his time more productively at RYFM, where (apparently) there are no arbitrary limitations on inclusion, than waste our time here with his blunderbust suggestions. |
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What?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 09:45 | ||
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 09:37 | ||
That's an Association Fallacy Svetonio: 1.- Prog fans have Prog albums 2.- Many Prog fans have Buckethead albums 3.- Then Buckethead albums are Prog In that case, I'm sure many members of this site have 1.- Rumors by Fleetwood Mac. 2.- Toullouse Street by Doobie Brothers 3.- Boston by Boston But this doesn't mean this bands should be added. Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 23 2013 at 09:41 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 09:31 | ||
This is probably one of the silliest things I've read on this website. And you can check my join date to see how long I've been around.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 04:56 | ||
^Very eloquently put Dean
I can think of a few people who would do themselves good in bookmarking this particular page. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 04:35 | ||
I have no opinion on whether the gifted guitarist Brian Patrick Carroll who goes by the stage name and persona of Buckethead should be added to the Archives or not. If he is evaluated for a Prog Sub other than Prog Related by the appropriate team then he will be evaluated by our established artist addition policies, if the team in question has previously rejected him then any re-evaluation must invoke the Controversial Bands Policy. As far as I am aware that applies to The Prog Metal Team and the Crossover Team. Since he is seemingly releasing new albums continuously he will always be eligible for re-evaluation. The Controversial Bands policy is designed to ensure that everyone on the team not only agrees with the addition, but is comfortable with the addition - if there is any doubt in the mind of a team member then they must voice that doubt and vote accordingly - this should never be a "go with the flow" or "if you guys are for it then I'll vote 'yes'" decision. This is not the time to be obsequious.
If he is suggested for Prog Related then that suggestion has to come from a Special Collaborator and made directly to a member of the Admin Team by PM (not in an open forum thread). The SC will be responsible for championing the suggestion and adding the artist if the Admins clear the addition. Before I go (literally, after the end of the year I'll no longer be responsible for any of this), I'd like to state the philosophy of the Prog Related category from the perspective of the Progressive Archive for the benefit of those who take it far too seriously: Prog Related has the potential of being the largest single category in the Progressive Archives, if we were to add every band and artist that produced music that could be interpreted as being related to Progressive Rock (and all its subgenres) then it would contain more artists than all the "true" Progressive Rock subgenres put together. It would dominate the site and we would become the Prog Related Archives or more accurately, The Quite Good Music Archives. To be blunt: Rate Your Music does that far better than we do, but that's okay, we do not want to be a General Music Review site - we simply cannot compete with a megalith like RYM, we survive because we are niche and we can only remain niche by being selective in the Prog Related artists we add. So, how do we assess that selectivity? By following the Prog Related definition found on the genre page as closely as is practical. Of course every person who suggests an artist believes their case to be special, that their artist meets all those criteria and then some, but it is the Admin Team who decides whether the artist is to be added, and they use their knowledge, judgement and experience weighed against the PR criteria and the overall benefit to the PA in reaching a decision. Many artists are worthy of addition but not all will be accepted. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 02:26 | ||
Accepted.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: December 23 2013 at 00:42 | ||
I prefer the roasted pumpkin seeds; the most beautiful sport for teeths! |
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Sheavy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 28 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 2866 |
Posted: December 22 2013 at 23:56 | ||
This thread should come with buttered popcorn and a soda.
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iamathousandapples
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 344 |
Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:54 | ||
I think he's pretty obviously prog related but the whole problem with the inspiration deal is that he's very much a contemporary artist. I know a lot of guys my age or so that really got into Buckethead's stuff but because they haven't yet made a name for themselves.
At the very least he has released a lot of Jazz Fusion albums which are really cool and deserve some proper recognition and the whole Bucketheadland series seems a bit prog metally.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: December 22 2013 at 22:50 | ||
I have no reason to not believe in what you said, Andy. Also, I know the criteria for an addition to PR section. Though, my opinion is based on the votes at this poll. The poll is clearly demonstrated that Buckethead is no stranger to PA members. By the way, I personally am not a fan of Buckethead. So, my opinion is based solely on what this poll showed to me - Buckethead's albums can be found in many PA members' collections. That's the valid reason for add him to PA as Prog Related act as well. Edited by Svetonio - December 22 2013 at 22:53 |
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