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Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
Posted: March 08 2012 at 15:39
Queen (1973) Keep Yourself Alive - not prog Doing All Right - somewhat prog Great King Rat - prog My Fairy King - definitely prog Liar - prog The Night Comes Down - not prog Modern Times Rock'n'Roll - not prog Son and Daughter - live version is prog but I'm not sure about the album one Jesus - not prog Seven Seas of Rhye... - not prog
Is that album prog overall? Rather yes. Let's say it's semi-prog, but it's more than prog-related.
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Queen II (1974) — all prog except for The Loser In The End and maybe Ogre Battle
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Sheer Heart Attack (1974) Brighton Rock - half prog, half metal Killer Queen - pop, but the production with retro sound is somewhat proggish. Let's say it's prog-related Tenement Funster - not prog itself, but it's a part of long bunch of tracks, which is prog itself Flick of the Wrist - prog Lily of the Valley - prog Now I'm Here - not prog In the Lap of the Gods - prog Stone Cold Crazy - not prog itself, but it's connected with previous track Dear Friends - ? (for me it's prog) Misfire - for that album, it's prog Bring Back That Leroy Brown - for that album, it's prog She Makes Me (Stormtrooper in Stilettos) - not prog In The Lap of the Gods... Revisited - not prog
Is it prog overall? Well, there's a lot of pop tunes, but prog is still prevails here.
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A Night at the Opera (1975) Death on two Legs (Dedicated to...... - somewhat prog, somewhat not Lazing on a Sunday Afternoon - prog I'm in Love with My Car - not prog You're My Best Friend - not prog '39 - not prog Sweet Lady - not prog Seaside Rendezvous - prog The Prophet's Song - prog Love of My Life - prog (at least for me) Good Company - prog Bohemian Rhapsody - prog God Save the Queen - prog
Again, there's some pop tracks, but overall it's a prog album
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A Day at the Races (1976) Tie Your Mother Down - intro is prog, the rest is not You Take My Breath Away - prog Long Away - not prog The Millionaire Waltz - prog You and I - prog Somebody to Love - prog White Man - not prog Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy - just as Killer Queen — it's a simple pop song but with very prog production Drowse - not prog Teo Torriatte (Let Us Cling Together) - outro is prog, the rest is not.
Let's call it 'semi-prog' overall. But it still would be a prog album for me.
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News of the World (1977) We Will Rock You - not prog We Are the Champions - not prog Sheer Heart Attack - not prog All Dead, All Dead - some prog flavour during the guitar solo, but... it's not a prog song Spread Your Wings - not prog Fight From the Inside - not prog Get Down, Make Love - prog Sleeping on the Sidewalk - not prog Who Needs You - a pop song, but very unusual. Let it be 'semi-prog' It's Late - the only 100% prog song here My Melancholy Blues - even if it's reminiscent to some early Queen songs, it wouldn't be prog here.
So would it be a prog album? For me, it's not.
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Jazz (1978) Mustapha, Bicycle Race and Dreamer's Ball are prog, the rest is not. So this is not a prog album.
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The Miracle (1989) Party - not prog Khashoggi's Ship - not prog The Miracle - a pop song with non-convential song structure (heavy guitar solo after three verses and then a brand-new tempo and melody), so it's prog. Let's call it 'pop prog'. I Want It All - not prog The Invisible Man - not prog Breakthru - prog intro, the rest is not prog Rain Must Fall - a very unusual sound for Queen. Though it's arguable if I'll call this song prog. Scandal - 'pop prog' again? My Baby Does Me - not prog Was It All Worth It - the only unarguable prog song on this album
Is that album prog overall? No, but it's a large step towards prog after The Works and A Kind of Magic.
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Innuendo (1991) Innuendo - definitely prog I'm Going Slightly Mad - not prog, but it's what I call 'art rock' Headlong - not prog I Can't Live With You - not prog Don't Try So Hard - prog Ride The Willd Wind - ehm... I'd call this one prog, but I know, it's very arguable All God's People - prog These Are The Days Of Our Lives - 'pop prog', for me Delilah - not prog The Hitman - not prog Bijou - prog The Show Must Go On - for me, prog (at least, unusual song structure with melody changes is here)
Is this a full-prog album? Not. But there's still a lot of prog things. I'd call it 'prog related'.
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Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 14122
Posted: March 08 2012 at 13:49
Ok, let's say that Ride the wild wind is a good song...what about the other three? The only thing that I can say "against" the Queen is their discontinuity. At least one weak song or fillers in every album, together with masterpieces. It's a band that I love, but I have always thougth that this was their defect. Less visible in the first albums, but more evident from album to album.
I'm with you about 1971-1977 (I add Jazz to the list), but I'm not 100% sure that we can speak of more than prog-related.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
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Points: 1534
Posted: March 08 2012 at 13:27
The Dark Elf wrote:
NickHall wrote:
nice speech, but doesn't change the fact that this isnt progressive as we know it Jim
And what is "progressive as we know it" precisely?
I would argue that both Queen II and Night at the Opera are significantly progressive. Look at many of the albums that are considered "progressive": Rush's 2112 (sorry, to my ears there's only half a prog album), Yes' Fragile (a few long prog songs with several 1, 2 and 3 minute songs surrounding them), Pink Floyd's Meddle (one long prog song, but the other side has a hard rock instrumental, two psychedelic tunes, a song about the beach that Herb Alpert could've wrote and a blues tune about a dog). The same could be said about a few early Genesis and Tull albums.
But boundaries are broken in Queen II and Night at the Opera that, to me, are indicative of progressive albums. An album like Night at the Opera, for instance, has unconventional instrumentation (Ukulele, kazoos, and vocal overlays that are, in themselves, a form of instrumentation, like on "The Prophet Song"), and in addition to hard rock and pop tunes, a song composed in rhapsodic form, the use of acoustic guitar, English Burlesque, and a faithful version of "God Save the Queen". The album progresses far beyond the standard rock format.
And yes, that was a nice speech by Moshkito. Sometimes I actually agree with him. We must be getting close to a lunar eclipse or having solar flares or something.
I'd agree with you. At first, progressive rock is a very wide definition of genre which may imply many forms of experimentation in music, not just long epics.
For me, Queen WERE a prog band from 1971 to 1976 and also in 1989—1991.
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Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Posted: March 08 2012 at 09:02
clarke2001 wrote:
lucas wrote:
I really don't care how you label them, they were an astonishing band, one of the best ever. They were sort of an operatic rock band evolving with their time. And if some people tell they lost their "bite" after the game, they should listen to songs like "innuendo", "is this the world we created", "tear it up", "gimme the prize", "who wants to live forever", "was it all worth it", "scandal", "I can't live with you", "don't try so hard", "the hitman", "the show must go on". They all showcase some tremendous musicianship and exceptional vocals, of course.
YEAH!!!
Now that's a real fan!
But if you listen to Delilah, Ride The Wild Wind, The Invisible Man, Don't Loose Your Head....you may have a different impression.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: June 14 2006
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Points: 4160
Posted: March 08 2012 at 08:54
lucas wrote:
I really don't care how you label them, they were an astonishing band, one of the best ever. They were sort of an operatic rock band evolving with their time. And if some people tell they lost their "bite" after the game, they should listen to songs like "innuendo", "is this the world we created", "tear it up", "gimme the prize", "who wants to live forever", "was it all worth it", "scandal", "I can't live with you", "don't try so hard", "the hitman", "the show must go on". They all showcase some tremendous musicianship and exceptional vocals, of course.
Joined: October 12 2011
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Posted: March 08 2012 at 00:27
I guess if someone were to base the opinion of `Queen is not progressive rock' on only having heard the stuff like `We Will Rock You, `We Are The Champions' etc, then they'd have no reason to consider them prog. But even `Bohemian Rhapsody', a song EVERYONE has heard, is VERY progressive rock! :)
Queen were the very fist band I ever got into when I was a teenager, and listening to those early albums....I had never heard ANYTHING like them before!
So even though the band is not one I listen to a lot these days, they are directly responsible for me going on to discover progressive rock.
Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: March 08 2012 at 00:19
NickHall wrote:
nice speech, but doesn't change the fact that this isnt progressive as we know it Jim
Progressive "as we know it"? That in itself sounds so wrong to me. How can we know what is progressive "in advance"? If we do, then it is not really progressive...just complex and sophisticated.
Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: March 07 2012 at 23:58
BTW: Excellent band, Night at the Opera and Day at the Races are magnificent albums, but except a couple of tracks like Prophet's Song, Bohemian Rhapsody and IMO Somebody to Love, I don't believe they played Progressive Rock.
They broke boundaries were innovative, original, pompous and whatever adjectives we want to add, but not Progressive Rock.
nice speech, but doesn't change the fact that this isnt progressive as we know it Jim
And what is "progressive as we know it" precisely?
I would argue that both Queen II and Night at the Opera are significantly progressive. Look at many of the albums that are considered "progressive": Rush's 2112 (sorry, to my ears there's only half a prog album), Yes' Fragile (a few long prog songs with several 1, 2 and 3 minute songs surrounding them), Pink Floyd's Meddle (one long prog song, but the other side has a hard rock instrumental, two psychedelic tunes, a song about the beach that Herb Alpert could've wrote and a blues tune about a dog). The same could be said about a few early Genesis and Tull albums.
But boundaries are broken in Queen II and Night at the Opera that, to me, are indicative of progressive albums. An album like Night at the Opera, for instance, has unconventional instrumentation (Ukulele, kazoos, and vocal overlays that are, in themselves, a form of instrumentation, like on "The Prophet Song"), and in addition to hard rock and pop tunes, a song composed in rhapsodic form, the use of acoustic guitar, English Burlesque, and a faithful version of "God Save the Queen". The album progresses far beyond the standard rock format.
And yes, that was a nice speech by Moshkito. Sometimes I actually agree with him. We must be getting close to a lunar eclipse or having solar flares or something.
You put it better than I could-the boundary between what is and is not considered "real" prog is often arbitrary and I see no reason that Queen shouldn't be accepted as such. Even their later pop work never lost their classical affectations and, as you mentioned, much of their early work is as progressive as can be.
Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: March 07 2012 at 23:51
richardh wrote:
The only studio album I have is Flash Gordon. Reading the reviews I should perhaps consider QueenII but lack of keyboards puts me off. This a small taster of what Queen could have been
btw I love the film
Not exact Richard, there are keyboards in every Queen album, they used piano since"Queen I", as a fact in their debut album, they used double piano with Freddie and Bian May.
They started using synths in 980's album "Play the Game".
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Posted: March 07 2012 at 22:40
NickHall wrote:
nice speech, but doesn't change the fact that this isnt progressive as we know it Jim
And what is "progressive as we know it" precisely?
I would argue that both Queen II and Night at the Opera are significantly progressive. Look at many of the albums that are considered "progressive": Rush's 2112 (sorry, to my ears there's only half a prog album), Yes' Fragile (a few long prog songs with several 1, 2 and 3 minute songs surrounding them), Pink Floyd's Meddle (one long prog song, but the other side has a hard rock instrumental, two psychedelic tunes, a song about the beach that Herb Alpert could've wrote and a blues tune about a dog). The same could be said about a few early Genesis and Tull albums.
But boundaries are broken in Queen II and Night at the Opera that, to me, are indicative of progressive albums. An album like Night at the Opera, for instance, has unconventional instrumentation (Ukulele, kazoos, and vocal overlays that are, in themselves, a form of instrumentation, like on "The Prophet Song"), and in addition to hard rock and pop tunes, a song composed in rhapsodic form, the use of acoustic guitar, English Burlesque, and a faithful version of "God Save the Queen". The album progresses far beyond the standard rock format.
And yes, that was a nice speech by Moshkito. Sometimes I actually agree with him. We must be getting close to a lunar eclipse or having solar flares or something.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 17529
Posted: March 07 2012 at 12:11
Hi,
Even though this group had a few hit songs, in the end, thinking of this band as "progressive" is probably just as bad as not giving them credit for their originality, and an attitude that was more befitting an original, and creative band, which in a way was something that a lot of "progressive" bands lost ... and are still trying to bask in that vain theme.
Almost none of the pieces that we remember from this band sound the same, and the honesty and flair with which Freddie did his thing, was very good, and something that not even Mick Jagger has been able to maintain or keep up with, despite his talking about different music and it all still sounding the same after all the talk!
I would rather vote for this band being progressive, because they stuck to themselves ... and to their inner truth and value. And it's hard to put a price on that honesty ... instead of ripping people off with blatant covers and copies of the previous works. And if you don't have tears for that last song ... you are not a person that can appreciate the total, real, honest, and pure truth and beauty behind any person's soul and spirit. That, is what "transcendence" is all about ... pure and simple!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
But just make sure you get `The Game' before it, under all circumstances!
Oh, I will!
I don't mind synths and programmed beats. I'm just not sure I love the idea of Queen
doing synths and programmed beats, which is what I remember hearing from that album. I do like "Calling All Girls" and "Under Pressure" though. I'll approach Hot Space with extreme caution.
Joined: October 12 2011
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Points: 7951
Posted: March 05 2012 at 21:22
I do remember `The Game' was pretty short - Just a bunch of concise, tight, well played and catchy pop songs!
Ha! I was just about to ask if you'd heard `Hot Space'! That one is a lot more difficult to like, but I think in retrospect it's not quite as truly terrible as some make it out to be.
Oh, there is some absolute dogs**t tracks on it - `Body Language' is so freaking awful lol! There is a much stronger programmed and keyboard sound to it, bit of a shock at first. However, I'm a little more forgiving of it these days than I used to be.
But just make sure you get `The Game' before it, under all circumstances!
Joined: October 12 2011
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Posted: March 05 2012 at 20:52
In the end, it's just a top-notch pop/rock album, with a number of great tracks, with the odd filler or two! So a very typical Queen album, but you can't go wrong with that!
I especially liked May's `Sail Away Sweet Sister'! `Dragon Attack is a freaking killer too!
Now that I look back at it (haven't listened to it in a while), that album did have a stack of big hits on it, eh?
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Queen as progressive band?
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The Dark Elf wrote:
