Defining Prog- The Eternal Question

Snow Dog wrote: Please don't put people off ELP. This happened before with a previous member called Karnevil9. You're not him are you?

Of course not!I promise to behave from now on don't worry!But leave that last post up if you think someone might get a laugh out of it who knows what it's about ,o.k.? It's kind of a going away present to everybody that I got involved with my mistake-which remember wasn't my fault.Believe it or not it had to be a typo.You yourself know how nortorious BSS typos are. I saw you all over them when I was researching them earlier today.ELP is my favorite band, Iwould never try to put them off.Good night.

Alright everyone,listen up.Since I've made about 2 or 3 hundred posts in the last 3 days,that automatically moves me up to a 7 star President-General status in the hierarchy of this site's members.In other words,I own this site now and you will all follow MY orders from now on.RIGHT? CHECK!   O.K. then,thanks to the brilliant manuvering that brought me up to this rank as of late,we have now established ongoing communications with 2 of the members of ELP.That would be Greg Lake and Karn Evalson,NO,NO,that is Keith Emerson I mean.So the first order of business and my first commands are to GET SOME ELP ALBUMS ON THE TOP 100 ASAP!,before they notice that we currently don't have a single one of their albums up there at present.O.K.,I want Welcome Back My Friends to be put in the no. 1 position immediately.Brain Salad Surgery will be placed at no. 3.Works Vol.1 at no. 7 and Greg Lake's 2005 Tour at no. 10.Carry out these orders within the next 12 hours so if they come to visit our site tomorrow ,they will see we fully support them.Also ,for the next 2 weeks ,everyone will include some pictures,posters and ELP memerabelia on all their posts for them to see.You can use photographs of the band members,album covers,Karn Eval 9 posters,etc.Whatever you can dredge up.Now I want this site to be ship-shape for our soon to be newest members,Lake and Eversan.NOW IS EVERYBODY WITH ME!! Can you give me an L! Give me an A! Give me a K! An E! Give me an E!,give me a V, ,wait,no,no,an M! Give me .an A!, wait,no,no,I mean an E! ,An L! ,no,I mean an R! ,an S! O! ,N! Lets hear a big shout for LAKE!,EVAl...no ,no,no,EMERSON!

Dean wrote: rematpac wrote: Iplead guilty on all counts and deeply apologize on them ,except no.'s 4 and 8.Both the stories as well as everything I.ve ever said are completely true,I remember them well,the exact interpretation became a little cloudy though I realize and take responcibility for that.That's not saying that I did absolutely anything purposefully wrong of course I hope you understand.No.8 I don't understand. Let's look at (4) from our (PA) perspective instead of yours for a change: You originally stated that you saw it printed that way on a poster from BSS in 1973, then later changed that to (and I quote) "on the 1st ELP albums I bought which was a double cassette version of Welcome Back My Friends", which was released a year later in 1974. All throughout this you claim your memory (as a musician) is infallible, yet your claims have changed and appear to be inconsistent.    Internet Trolling is the act of deliberately disrupting forum threads for fun - so far, whether on purpose or by ineptness you have successfully managed to completely disrupt three perfectly reasonable threads. If it looks like trolling to us then we will legitimately call that poster a troll.   (8) is my poor attempt at a joke - using humour to lighten and deflect an insult directed at me by you - ignore it, I did.

Dean wrote: rematpac wrote: Dean wrote: Let's get a million and one things straight before you leave.   I got a typo all those years ago,it always bothered me,but I genuinely thought that was the original spelling,what else could I think?I know beyond any doubt that my memory is not faulty,I still have the poster somewhere in the garage which should be from the 1st album still.  That's what I have been saying all along - if you have a typo copy of the album then that's a great piece of Rock Trivia. I looked for it in the garage today and didn't find it.I know it's there though.When I find it I pray that it will say eval.If it's from my 1st album,then it should.I was completely confident before because the fact IS,I GOT A TYPO ALBUM.No hazy memory,absolutely.I haven't looked at the poster for a couple years and I wasn't even thinking about the typo when I did,so I can't guarantee anything except that if it is the original,it should have the same typo error.One good thing has come from this mess anyway though alredy;I got you guys hooked up with Lake,superstar.   HOWEVER your original assertion was the it was originally called Karn Eval and they changed it later. Thus far all the evidence suggests it has always been called Karn Evil.

rematpac wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: I think you missed my post from the other thread, Paul, so I'll put it here too: harmonium.ro wrote: I took your advice, and wrote Greg. Here's what he replied: "Dear Alex, Thank you for writing me. Honestly, I have no idea about the EVAL issue, it's always been KARN EVIL 9 as far as I am concerned. If you don't believe me, you can talk to Keith on Skype, just don't, ever, call before 11 AM! I hope this solves your problem, Yours, Greg Lake" Congradulations,fine job!Idon't know if this means I have a message waiting for me already,Isent him a message via his youtube site.Iam glad to finally know the truth after all these decades even though it means I have to accept it was just another bad luck story for me.I had to be the one to get a typo,of course it had to be me.I just prefer knowing the truth whatever it is.I hope he has some idea of typos,but he may not have ever known or remember anyway.But I sure do.It bothered back then,but know the frustration of it has been elevated at least by 10.But be assured,there is nothing wrong with my memory on the issue in general.

harmonium.ro wrote: I think you missed my post from the other thread, Paul, so I'll put it here too: harmonium.ro wrote: I took your advice, and wrote Greg. Here's what he replied: "Dear Alex, Thank you for writing me. Honestly, I have no idea about the EVAL issue, it's always been KARN EVIL 9 as far as I am concerned. If you don't believe me, you can talk to Keith on Skype, just don't, ever, call before 11 AM! I hope this solves your problem, Yours, Greg Lake" Congradulations,fine job!Idon't know if this means I have a message waiting for me already,Isent him a message via his youtube site.Iam glad to finally know the truth after all these decades even though it means I have to accept it was just another bad luck story for me.I had to be the one to get a typo,of course it had to be me.I just prefer knowing the truth whatever it is.I hope he has some idea of typos,but he may not have ever known or remember anyway.But I sure do.It bothered back then,but know the frustration of it has been elevated at least by 10.But be assured,there is nothing wrong with my memory on the issue in general.

rematpac wrote: Dean wrote: rematpac wrote: No I'm not rude,etc.,I happen to be a very,nice,tolerent guy.Sometimes I may be misunderstood and I think you're largely reversing the roles here.Whose the one that started the name-calling and personal attacks,if you'll check the record it was you!When I thought of that" told you so" remark,I thought that would be the most polite way that I can think of to pose my challenge.You have some deep personal problem of your own that would even find that statement offensive at all!The name was on the BBS album for sure!,not positively on my 2 cassette set.We're talking over a quarter of a century ago,yet a musician at birth never forgets the name of his favorite song-impossible.You were the one that called me a duck-nose,said you couldn't stand my ranting,compared me to a 5 yaer old when I was only trying to phrase something as polite and inhospitable as I could,called me a liar and a troll and I was only trying to solve this very REAL issue and find an answer.And please quite coming with me using your age as if that gives you some type of superiority over me .I'm 52.Whether you like it or not and certainly will never admit it to yourself at this point,I happen to have a tremendous amount in common with many of the people in the bands that you and your crew live for.Probably more than anyone else you've ever met on this site yet.I realize that is totally irrelevant and I haven't really been counting ,but if you take a toll count on all your verbal offences against me ,I really didn't do so much to deserve all that whether you're willing to admit it or not.Looking at Welcome Back is probably the wrong place,but I appreciate the effort.That looks like a terrible review and I used to collect Circus and Circus Raves during that period and they were usually pretty good.Certainly a lot better than the mags on the new rock music which dropped down 5 levels in quality or the Rolling Stone critics.The best and probably the only chance to resolve my issue is if Greg Lake responds back to me when he eventually gets back to his computer site.If he does,I will let you know in gratitude for the work you have spent on it. Let's get a million and one things straight before you leave. Well that's what I was expecting to hear as of late:I got a typo all those years ago,it always bothered me,but I genuinely thought that was the original spelling,what else could I think?I know beyond any doubt that my memory is not faulty,I still have the poster somewhere in the garage which should be from the 1st album still.  1. I did not call you "duck nose". That comment was in regard to the post immediately preceding mine in that thread where someone asked "what happened?" and my reply was rhyming slang for "fk knows"   2. My age was not intended to be a position of superiority, how could it be when I didn't know how old you were until just now? I assumed you were roughly my age, so no superiority would have been possible. The comment was in regard to your use of playground bravado.   3. I never called you a liar, or even inferred that you might be.   4. I only called you a troll when you changed your story from a poster for BSS in a cardboard box in your garage to a cassette copy of WBMFTTSTNE bought from a convenience store. That's classic trolling so the rhetorical question was valid.   5. Insult toll counting is petty, but thus far I've counted zero from me.   6. I posted a quote from Keith Emerson taken from the liner-notes for BSS where he categorically states "So we went carnival, hmm, Karn Evil. Bang! That's it - end of story" - is that not good enough for you?   7. Another person (not me) has confirmed that the title on the UK first pressing of BSS is "Karn Evil".   8. My deep personal problems are my own affair and I would prefer it if you didn't voice them in public. The cream is working and it should clear up in a few days.

Iplead guilty on all counts and deeply apologize on them ,except no.'s 4 and 8.Both the stories as well as everything I.ve ever said are completely true,I remember them well,the exact interpretation became a little cloudy though I realize and take responcibility for that.That's not saying that I did absolutely anything purposefully wrong of course I hope you understand.No.8 I don't understand.

rematpac wrote: No I'm not rude,etc.,I happen to be a very,nice,tolerent guy.Sometimes I may be misunderstood and I think you're largely reversing the roles here.Whose the one that started the name-calling and personal attacks,if you'll check the record it was you!When I thought of that" told you so" remark,I thought that would be the most polite way that I can think of to pose my challenge.You have some deep personal problem of your own that would even find that statement offensive at all!The name was on the BBS album for sure!,not positively on my 2 cassette set.We're talking over a quarter of a century ago,yet a musician at birth never forgets the name of his favorite song-impossible.You were the one that called me a duck-nose,said you couldn't stand my ranting,compared me to a 5 yaer old when I was only trying to phrase something as polite and inhospitable as I could,called me a liar and a troll and I was only trying to solve this very REAL issue and find an answer.And please quite coming with me using your age as if that gives you some type of superiority over me .I'm 52.Whether you like it or not and certainly will never admit it to yourself at this point,I happen to have a tremendous amount in common with many of the people in the bands that you and your crew live for.Probably more than anyone else you've ever met on this site yet.I realize that is totally irrelevant and I haven't really been counting ,but if you take a toll count on all your verbal offences against me ,I really didn't do so much to deserve all that whether you're willing to admit it or not.Looking at Welcome Back is probably the wrong place,but I appreciate the effort.That looks like a terrible review and I used to collect Circus and Circus Raves during that period and they were usually pretty good.Certainly a lot better than the mags on the new rock music which dropped down 5 levels in quality or the Rolling Stone critics.The best and probably the only chance to resolve my issue is if Greg Lake responds back to me when he eventually gets back to his computer site.If he does,I will let you know in gratitude for the work you have spent on it.

Let's get a million and one things straight before you leave.

Edited by Dean - March 31 2011 at 02:38

rematpac wrote: rematpac wrote: rematpac wrote: Dean wrote: rematpac wrote: Dean wrote: Snow Dog wrote: rematpac wrote: Them that do,do;them that can't do,teach;and them that can't teach ctiticize.And that's all you can do since you undoubtably can't play a note of real music.YOU are the failure.I just spent 2 hours looking through internet files on typos for Karn Eval 9 to try and solve the mystery.I found nothing to explain my paradox.I even contacted Greg Lake himself and may hopefully hear back from him someday.When I google Karn Eval 9,there are many websites with that spelling reffering to ELP.You can't tell me I got the one typo album and nobody else did.Since all you're capable of is to critisize others,you should have the solution.You are the failure and all you can do is print fail to someone else to make yourself feel like you're important.What a pathetic sick joke! Wrong thread. Wrong planet. Why don't you check up on just one thing I ever said to see if it's true or not?it's so little work and aren't you even curious that you might have been completely wrong about me?No ,you won't.Because then you'd have to face the truth about yourself. What would you like me to check? I too have spent more time than is necessary searching the internet for references to Karn Eval - every one I've found so far appears to be a typographical error - there is nothing on any official site, database or listing. Every single occurance is in a freeform uneditted forum or uncorroborated review.   I can pull up several newspaper cuttings from 1973 from both the UK and the USA that call it "Karn Evil 9", we can do that if you like:   Here's one from Circus magazine dated 1974:   I have also pulled out my vinyl copy of Welcom Back My Friends, I could take a photo of that if you like.   But No. None of this is the problem. I really honestly seriously do not have a problem with Karn Evil being spelt Karn Eval or Karn Ival or Karne Veal or Chili-con-Karne any other variant. If you can find incontrovertible proof of such a thing then that really is a great piece of rock trivia.   My problem is with you. You are rude, obnoxious, arrogant and down right unfriendly - every single post from you is an angry incoherent rant that attempts to belittle anything anyone has said on any subject you care to grace us with a dip in your font of knowledge with, then replies to any serious responses you get with histrionics and tantrums. I asked how old you were because I haven't heard responses like you have given since I was in the infants school [ there's going to be a big"I TOLD YOU SO" ... come on, I'm 54 years old - I don't respond to playground bravado and I can't get my dad to beat up your dad because he's been dead 20 years]. We called you out as a troll - you know those beasties that trawl the internets stirring up trouble for snit and giggles - because even if you don't know what one is, that is exactly how you are behaving. So carry on calling us creeps and jokes, but do it elsewhere, not here. No I'm not rude,etc.,I happen to be a very,nice,tolerent guy.Sometimes I may be misunderstood and I think you're largely reversing the roles here.Whose the one that started the name-calling and personal attacks,if you'll check the record it was you!When I thought of that" told you so" remark,I thought that would be the most polite way that I can think of to pose my challenge.You have some deep personal problem of your own that would even find that statement offensive at all!The name was on the BBS album for sure!,not positively on my 2 cassette set.We're talking over a quarter of a century ago,yet a musician at birth never forgets the name of his favorite song-impossible.You were the one that called me a duck-nose,said you couldn't stand my ranting,compared me to a 5 yaer old when I was only trying to phrase something as polite and inhospitable as I could,called me a liar and a troll and I was only trying to solve this very REAL issue and find an answer.And please quite coming with me using your age as if that gives you some type of superiority over me .I'm 52.Whether you like it or not and certainly will never admit it to yourself at this point,I happen to have a tremendous amount in common with many of the people in the bands that you and your crew live for.Probably more than anyone else you've ever met on this site yet.I realize that is totally irrelevant and I haven't really been counting ,but if you take a toll count on all your verbal offences against me ,I really didn't do so much to deserve all that whether you're willing to admit it or not.Looking at Welcome Back is probably the wrong place,but I appreciate the effort.That looks like a terrible review and I used to collect Circus and Circus Raves during that period and they were usually pretty good.Certainly a lot better than the mags on the new rock music which dropped down 5 levels in quality or the Rolling Stone critics.The best and probably the only chance to resolve my issue is if Greg Lake responds back to me when he eventually gets back to his computer site.If he does,I will let you know in gratitude for the work you have spent on it. Sorry to bother you again,but I just wanted to thank you again for printing that ELP review from Circus magazine because I can most defititely remember reading this review 37 years ago! I had this issue.

Sorry to bother you AGAIN! If you're busy and choose to just ignore me,I will of course understand and not be the slightest bit offended.But(and it was originally your idea),I just got the same idea,IF you have any time sometime and COMPLETELY EASY ACCESS to the November issue of Circus or Circus Raves magazine when Brain Salad 1st came out,since we know that they reviewed these albums right when they came out,a review of Brain Salad from back then should answer the question if EVAL was a typo or not,leaving Lake with just hopefully maybe providing any info he might remember about any typos on this albums song releases.I know that The Nice had a big problem with the shabby photography on the release of their 3rd album which they couldn't do anything about except be extremely upset since it had already been released.But of course Brain Salad was released on ELP's own record label Manticore,so that would probably diminish the possibility of typo errors you would think,but as you well know Brain Salad has had a history of typos of different kinds ,but probably not so many on their own label.Just a thought.

rematpac wrote: Dean wrote: rematpac wrote: Dean wrote: Snow Dog wrote: rematpac wrote: Them that do,do;them that can't do,teach;and them that can't teach ctiticize.And that's all you can do since you undoubtably can't play a note of real music.YOU are the failure.I just spent 2 hours looking through internet files on typos for Karn Eval 9 to try and solve the mystery.I found nothing to explain my paradox.I even contacted Greg Lake himself and may hopefully hear back from him someday.When I google Karn Eval 9,there are many websites with that spelling reffering to ELP.You can't tell me I got the one typo album and nobody else did.Since all you're capable of is to critisize others,you should have the solution.You are the failure and all you can do is print fail to someone else to make yourself feel like you're important.What a pathetic sick joke! Wrong thread. Wrong planet. Why don't you check up on just one thing I ever said to see if it's true or not?it's so little work and aren't you even curious that you might have been completely wrong about me?No ,you won't.Because then you'd have to face the truth about yourself. What would you like me to check? I too have spent more time than is necessary searching the internet for references to Karn Eval - every one I've found so far appears to be a typographical error - there is nothing on any official site, database or listing. Every single occurance is in a freeform uneditted forum or uncorroborated review.   I can pull up several newspaper cuttings from 1973 from both the UK and the USA that call it "Karn Evil 9", we can do that if you like:   Here's one from Circus magazine dated 1974:   I have also pulled out my vinyl copy of Welcom Back My Friends, I could take a photo of that if you like.   But No. None of this is the problem. I really honestly seriously do not have a problem with Karn Evil being spelt Karn Eval or Karn Ival or Karne Veal or Chili-con-Karne any other variant. If you can find incontrovertible proof of such a thing then that really is a great piece of rock trivia.   My problem is with you. You are rude, obnoxious, arrogant and down right unfriendly - every single post from you is an angry incoherent rant that attempts to belittle anything anyone has said on any subject you care to grace us with a dip in your font of knowledge with, then replies to any serious responses you get with histrionics and tantrums. I asked how old you were because I haven't heard responses like you have given since I was in the infants school [ there's going to be a big"I TOLD YOU SO" ... come on, I'm 54 years old - I don't respond to playground bravado and I can't get my dad to beat up your dad because he's been dead 20 years]. We called you out as a troll - you know those beasties that trawl the internets stirring up trouble for snit and giggles - because even if you don't know what one is, that is exactly how you are behaving. So carry on calling us creeps and jokes, but do it elsewhere, not here.

No I'm not rude,etc.,I happen to be a very,nice,tolerent guy.Sometimes I may be misunderstood and I think you're largely reversing the roles here.Whose the one that started the name-calling and personal attacks,if you'll check the record it was you!When I thought of that" told you so" remark,I thought that would be the most polite way that I can think of to pose my challenge.You have some deep personal problem of your own that would even find that statement offensive at all!The name was on the BBS album for sure!,not positively on my 2 cassette set.We're talking over a quarter of a century ago,yet a musician at birth never forgets the name of his favorite song-impossible.You were the one that called me a duck-nose,said you couldn't stand my ranting,compared me to a 5 yaer old when I was only trying to phrase something as polite and inhospitable as I could,called me a liar and a troll and I was only trying to solve this very REAL issue and find an answer.And please quite coming with me using your age as if that gives you some type of superiority over me .I'm 52.Whether you like it or not and certainly will never admit it to yourself at this point,I happen to have a tremendous amount in common with many of the people in the bands that you and your crew live for.Probably more than anyone else you've ever met on this site yet.I realize that is totally irrelevant and I haven't really been counting ,but if you take a toll count on all your verbal offences against me ,I really didn't do so much to deserve all that whether you're willing to admit it or not.Looking at Welcome Back is probably the wrong place,but I appreciate the effort.That looks like a terrible review and I used to collect Circus and Circus Raves during that period and they were usually pretty good.Certainly a lot better than the mags on the new rock music which dropped down 5 levels in quality or the Rolling Stone critics.The best and probably the only chance to resolve my issue is if Greg Lake responds back to me when he eventually gets back to his computer site.If he does,I will let you know in gratitude for the work you have spent on it.