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Vompatti 
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: October 22 2005
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Points: 67407
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 Posted: June 09 2010 at 10:00 |
 CyberDiablo wrote:
The actual art is always misunderstood and underrated by ignorant people.
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Art critics, you mean?
Edited by Vompatti - June 09 2010 at 10:00
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CyberDiablo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 09:38 |
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The actual art is always misunderstood and underrated by ignorant people.
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Music is some kind of art.
-- Anonymous
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 09:31 |
What's funny is that this isn't a new phenomenon. I got into prog in the late '70's and it was the same back then. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 08:39 |
DT-PT wrote:
I am 15 years old myself, and I've noticed every band all of those I know like are either on the radio all the time or its some screamo band that everyone has heard of. I've noticed no one ever goes beyond these things or expand their horizons. They sit there listening to the same stuff and never think to check out anything.
Also, you try to introduce them to prog. If it's over 5 minutes, I often get complaints of it being incredibly long and get asked how I can possibly listen to something that long. Then they don't even give it a chance. The rare times they DO give it a chance, if the first minute has no lyrics, they complain that the whole thing is instrumental and say that a song without vocals is not music. What is that supposed to mean?
What are your guys' thoughts?
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Basically they don't deserve an explanation.....but you do. I have all this BS to offer and It is good to take into consideration what I have to say to benefit yourself Go back and research the 60's on your own. Even if you don't personally enjoy the 60's....do it anyway for the sake of understanding history. You will discover facts like Mike Bloomfield....a great blues guitarist hosted rock festivals or was well known by most people during the 60's but is now virtually unknown in the media. The Doors and Jimi Hendrix were important to the 60's no doubt but, today are the usual suspects in the media.....Also continue to research the progressive rock history as well. This will put things into perspective for you and the next time you encounter those you think they know everything but, know nothing, you will feel confident to shy away from their viewpoints and or back in the woods way of thinking. Nothing is written in stone....I still discover bands that derived from the 60's and 70's to this day. These people just base their opinions and views off what the media presents and once you know the truth regarding different time periods of music, it will be a pleasure for you to not engage in conversation with them.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 07:39 |
Textbook wrote:
ACR: I'm a teacher myself and have to say, in diplomatic terms, that you seem quite out of touch. The minute you start going "Oh the world is going to hell and technology is bad and teenagers are mostly awful except for the few that confirm to my personal preferences" (not that you said that exactly, I'm facetiously paraphrasing) you're throwing up huge walls and distance. It's a war you cannot win because the clock is not going to be turned back. If you're older, you've lost."All this were fields when I were a lad" couldn't be less relevant. You're preparing them for the world as it is today and if you can't engage in that world today, your usefulness to them will be limited. Sure, give them a perspective and insight into the past but don't go around thinking of particular times as "better" than others and don't detach yourself from their lifestyle, particularly when I assume you condemn it without having lived it. If you think the answer really is to lock yourself in a cave and switch off the world, fine, you go do that, but I don't think someone who really believes this is the way forward has much to offer a class. |
Alternatively, if you would like a less sarcastic response to Peter's post, this is a pretty good one instead of mine. Also, I learned more from the internet than I ever learned in my high school history class. stopthismadness wrote:
im 15 also, and i agree. i hate all the kids in school because they all like crap like a day to remember and the devil wears prada. i ask them if they know who yes or rush is and they look at me like im dumb. so i beat them up.
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Are you a real person?
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 06:08 |
ACR: I'm a teacher myself and have to say, in diplomatic terms, that you seem quite out of touch. The minute you start going "Oh the world is going to hell and technology is bad and teenagers are mostly awful except for the few that confirm to my personal preferences" (not that you said that exactly, I'm facetiously paraphrasing) you're throwing up huge walls and distance. It's a war you cannot win because the clock is not going to be turned back. If you're older, you've lost.
"All this were fields when I were a lad" couldn't be less relevant. You're preparing them for the world as it is today and if you can't engage in that world today, your usefulness to them will be limited. Sure, give them a perspective and insight into the past but don't go around thinking of particular times as "better" than others and don't detach yourself from their lifestyle, particularly when I assume you condemn it without having lived it.
If you think the answer really is to lock yourself in a cave and switch off the world, fine, you go do that, but I don't think someone who really believes this is the way forward has much to offer a class.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 05:33 |
Well this is becoming a flame thread for teens to vent their frustrations.
I think from what i read here now that the impression is that teenagers are unable to hold interest for long, have short attention spans and want everything instantly in this whizz bang age of instant coffee, instant TV and instant relationships online. Instant messaging and instant success.
We want everything and we want it now. The faster the better, the more instant the better. Everything is coming at us at a million frames a second and we take it in like sponges. None of us are exempt unless we lock ourselves away in a cave and switch off the world.
Technology is the villain of the age and we are spoilt for choice. It is designed to make life easier, but our lives have become complex mazes of techno info overload. We don't even need to leave our chair to change a channel, send a PM online or email someone from Italy, and i can watch people cross the road at Abbey Road online, and then switch to Egypt and see the pyramids and then find out what is happening in Czechoslovakia and then switch back to Australia and see what is the latest news all in the space of 20 minutes.
Some people can't live without a cell phone yet when I was a teen such things were science fiction. Gasp, we even needed to dial our phones and visit a phone booth to make outside calls. Today we even drive our cars with a phone pressed to our ear or can't let a call go while we are talking to our friend. What a rude gesture yet we do it without a moments thought.
It is a faceless society, teens can't communicate face-to-face when all they need to do is text message someone across the road from them rather than cross it to meet them. And here is the crux of the problem, the generation of today is lazy and they don't even realise it, they are a spoon fed generation and everything has to be instantaneous or they are not interested and get bored easily.
My students in the classroom have a favourite phrase "Do we have to do this?" My reply, is "Yes, and you will complete the task or be back here at recess and use your own time to complete it." That usually works. But they act surprised at this alternative. But it surprises me that everytime a student is asigned a task they want to get it out of the way straight away and get on with some net surfing activity. if I set a task to surf the net for assignments then there is no problem, they will do it as it fascinates them. I hear in the class "This is stupid, i am bored." Writing tasks, putting pen to paper is almost a torture. And of course they are bored in this techno age where images are being flashed at them all day on TV and the net.
However the exceptions to the rule are out there. I have heard from them on this very thread! Some students in my class are incredily intelligent and work hard and are always the achievers, always getting A grades and consistently handing in high quality work, their work shines in comparison to all the dull work with no effort put in, and so i have to award them accordingly. it is not that they are the bright sparks so much, it is just that they provide evidence that they care and put in a consistent effort and this is awarded everytime. It is all about attitude. If the attitude is right they excel and teachers find it a joy to teach them. Their report card always talks about attitude and effort.
Back to Prog. Prog music takes a lot of patience and it is complex and not spoon fed music but takes a degree of intelligence to comprehend and i am glad to say there are many teens here who do just that and it is gratifying to learn this.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 05:15 |
I sometimes ask people if they like things and if they do or don't I perform an action.
Thread locked.
Edited by Textbook - June 09 2010 at 05:16
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 04:31 |
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You know what I hate? Skateboards. Stupid teenagers.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 04:23 |
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I sometimes ask people on the street if they like King Crimson, and if they don't I punch them in the face.
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deathlifereborn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2009
Location: Newcastle, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 108
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Posted: June 09 2010 at 04:17 |
you beat them up?  you got some serious problems if you can't abide someone liking something different to you 
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'What happened to our innocence, did it go out of style'
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stopthismadness
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:13 |
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im 15 also, and i agree. i hate all the kids in school because they all like crap like a day to remember and the devil wears prada. i ask them if they know who yes or rush is and they look at me like im dumb. so i beat them up.
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 19:10 |
Dorsalia wrote:
Dude, people have probably been saying that since the dawn of time.
"What's with these teenagers nowadays? Have you heard that new polyphonic music they're playing? Absolute rubbish!"
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ONLY ONE MELODY PLZ!
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 16:23 |
Peter wrote:
Most people on this forum will be basically unwilling unable to read a post this long. They cannot focus that long -- it takes effort, and facility with language (thinking & communication skills). |
Hey Peter, could you try being a little more patronizing? I've heard that insulting the intelligence of your readers is a good way to get people to listen to you, but I think that you haven't gone quite far enough to drive the point home. Perhaps you could accuse us of being so absorbed in our digital world we don't know that there's a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico? Or perhaps tell us we don't have the focus to listen to a whole album in one sitting? The possibilities are endless.
There's been a lot of people talking lately about the decline of attention spans, but and I don't dispute them to some extent, but I think they're missing the point: posting on this forum is not as good for your reading abilities as wading through Heidegger, although I would argue it's beneficial in other ways, but before the internet, most people were not reading Heidegger, they were watching Diff'rent Strokes! And I'm 100% certain that spending half an hour in a discussion about anything is better than watching Diff'rent Strokes. Through Facebook and forums, the internet has returned the written word to a central part of our cultural discourse after radio and TV. It's as if people don't want to remember that Amusing Ourselves to Death was written in 1985, and let us not forget O Tempore O Mores....
And I like starting sentences with conjunctions and linking run on sentences with commas and sometimes using sentence fragments. It's much more natural and conversational than trying to make a post read like a high school English essay. Although I do admit that it's/its/there/their/they're/you're/your can drive me batty sometimes. ;-)
Peter wrote:
Some want to be dancers or pop stars. An easy route to riches and fame, with no work involved..... |
People don't like to work? How shocking! And do you really think that becoming a famous dancer or pop star or actor is so easy it requires no work? Because any famous person you can find is going to disagree with you there...
CyberDiablo wrote:
But it's problably because art music requires high talent (which they don't have).
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How do you define high talent and high art, and why are you the arbiter of whether or not art is valid and worthwhile?
Edited by Henry Plainview - June 08 2010 at 16:29
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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MusicForSpeedin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 613
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 13:00 |
MusicForSpeedin wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
MusicForSpeedin wrote:
There is nothing inherently bad about the music of today.
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Except for the fact that it is entirely derivative and has awful production values...
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You realize everything is derivative right? Frank Zappa rips off Edgard Varese. |
The idea of prog. being used only in the past tense makes perfect sense to me. For a band of today to consider itself progressive seems to be a little ridiculous without the influence of time showing us how their music progressed music in general.
Edited by MusicForSpeedin - June 08 2010 at 13:00
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MusicForSpeedin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 613
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 12:55 |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
MusicForSpeedin wrote:
There is nothing inherently bad about the music of today.
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Except for the fact that it is entirely derivative and has awful production values...
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You realize everything is derivative right? Frank Zappa rips off Edgard Varese.
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CyberDiablo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 08 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 12:38 |
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How sad.
The summary is:
"Most of today's teenagers don't like contemprorary art of any kind."
I mean 1920-1980 as contemprorary.
But it's problably because art music requires high talent (which they don't have). You know if you can sing (I know you can. I heard you in shower!) and if you are sexy... *bang* you became a pop star. Can you utter nonsense while trashing a guitar?... *bang* you became a screamo. Are you sad? *bang* you became an emo. Can you speak fast? *bang* you became a politician... I mean rapper. But no-one can become an "art"ist (with art in bold) so easily, it requires extremely high talent but seems like no-one has it..
Edited by CyberDiablo - June 08 2010 at 12:39
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WalterDigsTunes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 12:05 |
MusicForSpeedin wrote:
There is nothing inherently bad about the music of today.
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Except for the fact that it is entirely derivative and has awful production values...
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 11:56 |
MusicForSpeedin wrote:
I feel the same way about a lot of people that listen to and love prog. All of the fan boys of certain bands such as Tool, Porcupine Tree, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, etc. etc. don't seem too different from the kids that love Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, and Katy Perry. There is nothing inherently bad about the music of today. To hate music of today is just a stupid as the kid that says, "This is longer than 5 minutes so it sucks." I enjoy coming to this site and listening to prog., but if I honestly sat around all day listening to ITCOTCK or SEBTP I would get bored instantly.
I just had a talk with some friend about prog and we talked about how it seems pointless to look at a modern band and consider them progressive when all they do is expand on a formula used forty years ago. This idea has a lot to do with why I find it hard to get into "modern prog." because it is no longer interesting. It is useful to know what is going on in the world of music as of today with such genres as math-rock, which is listed on this site, chillwave, ambient, and whatever else.
Prog. isn't the end all of music. Hopefully this doesn't come across as harsh. |
It doesn't come across as harsh. But, I think there is a huge generation gap with various individuals and the agree to disagree applied to social life today is a shield for many. In the case of a DJ sampling a section of Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield or Tangerine Dream's Rubycon in a rap song on Halloween night is ignorant to me. When things like this happen I have more then a cause to hate music of today. So it's the representation of a rap tune and not Tubular Bells.....but, then why bother at all? It's out of bounds. It's out of true character. Those on the dance floor who like it seem to think that it is a bit dark or avant-garde to do things in this way. It takes the Avant-Garde out of the Avant-Garde. People like I suppose but, it doesn't present respect for the artist that made sacrifices to compose it and release it.
Regarding using a formula which was expanded on 40 years ago.....if teenagers feverishly look for a new formula and insist on not being influenced by any master or refusing to add any other formula to their vocabulary, their expectations will be an all time low. A creation of a new style in music without abundance of influence from masters of some sort is rare and can only happen naturally. It doesn't matter how many formulas you may close off. That act within itself (and to the extreme measures), will not bring you originality anymore then the homeless drunk at the street corner pub singing 'One Hundred Bottles Of Beer On The Wall". I feel a generation gap because people are taking the music I once loved and doing absurd things with it. In the 70's there were quite a few bands that emulated ELP, Genesis etc. I was annoyed by that. Some were unique adding their own ideas and revealing just the right dosage of that influence, while many others were ridiculous with the emulation of others. But what is going on today? I like to think of Prog in the past tense and It shouldn't enter into the media ever again really....I think The Enid, Three Friends, Steve Hackett and others at Nearfest is a great idea for all fans to attend but, some of the adaption of what people term as progressive rock in the last 2 decades is questionable to me.
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MusicForSpeedin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 613
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Posted: June 08 2010 at 03:04 |
I feel the same way about a lot of people that listen to and love prog. All of the fan boys of certain bands such as Tool, Porcupine Tree, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, etc. etc. don't seem too different from the kids that love Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, and Katy Perry. There is nothing inherently bad about the music of today. To hate music of today is just a stupid as the kid that says, "This is longer than 5 minutes so it sucks." I enjoy coming to this site and listening to prog., but if I honestly sat around all day listening to ITCOTCK or SEBTP I would get bored instantly.
I just had a talk with some friend about prog and we talked about how it seems pointless to look at a modern band and consider them progressive when all they do is expand on a formula used forty years ago. This idea has a lot to do with why I find it hard to get into "modern prog." because it is no longer interesting. It is useful to know what is going on in the world of music as of today with such genres as math-rock, which is listed on this site, chillwave, ambient, and whatever else.
Prog. isn't the end all of music. Hopefully this doesn't come across as harsh.
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Why is it with most teenagers nowadays?
