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AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 08:02

case in point, I bought a CD solely due ot rave reviews here on the PA. I was not disappointed as that album was Remedy Lane by POS.

Then I read in the CR prog magazine that a masterpeice CD had to be bought, by And You Shall Know them by the Trail of the Dead CD, I cant remember the name of the album as I permanently blotted it from my mind. It was appalling, not even prog - thats the difference betwen the magsand this site - the fans who are experienced and know these groups and dont hold back becasue they dont have hidden agendas such as trying to sell new artists, can actually be trusted.

It stands to reason that if 50 reviewers are raving here on PA about an album, the album has to be worth getting. Recently, solely from 5 star PA reviews I got some true masterpeices, IQ Frequency, Dun's Dun, Astra's The Weirding and Area's ... Frei! and the amazing Trick of hte tail by Genesis - albums I had no intention of getting until I was persuaded by PA reviews. I have never been disappointed. I trust this site more than the flamin' biased magazines!

Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 04:41

Tony R wrote:

Mr ProgFreak wrote:

The PA database is simply limited to assigning genres to artists - so all the albums of an artists are labelled with the same genre, regardless of how the style of the artist changes over time.

If only there was another site with a better way... Tongue

I deliberately made my post in a fairly neutral way ... I'm sure that this limitation is not equally important for all users. Some may find it severely limiting, while others might not have a problem with it at all. My subjective opinion is that given the authoritative status of this website, it may have a really bad impact on how people perceive genres. Newbies might really think that when they listen to Road Salt One they listen to Prog Metal.

BTW: For most genres of music this isn't such a big problem, because few bands change their genre over time. However, in the realm of prog just the opposite is the case - there are few bands that don't change their genre over time. That's why I think that genre per album *is* important.

Edited by Mr ProgFreak - May 19 2010 at 10:19

toroddfuglesteg View Drop Down

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 01:44

IMPORTANT NEWS

NEWSFLASH !!

PLEASE READ !!

As long as there will be human beings on this planet, there will be no objective opinions and no objective reviews on ProgArchives. For those of you who seek objective informations and objective music reviews; I refer you to another rock/planet in the solar system. Because as long as the mankind will exist, you will not find any objectivity on this rock/planet.

FACT !!!!

ProgArchives is not a source of objective album reviews and will never become one either. Face this fact and face the shortcomings of the human race.

.......Neither is music an exact science. Music is a very subjective form of art. It is based on feelings. 100 % based on feelings, in fact. It is impossible to use objectivity to describe feelings.

As the visitor/user of ProgArchives, it is your task to make up your own opinion on each album and each review before you purchase that album. ProgArchives can only help you on the way, but you have to walk the last mile on your own.

In this respect, ProgArchives is the best music website on the net and far better than all the prestigious music magazines and newspapers I and others here have ever worked for.

Edited by toroddfuglesteg - May 19 2010 at 01:52

boo boo

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 01:40

Because I'm a member of this site and not the others?

It's because I visit PA so much (because it IS a good site and the streamed files are very useful for trying out new stuff) and actually do like this site that I pick apart what I consider the flaws. With inferior sites it's not even worth it.

Edited by boo boo - May 19 2010 at 03:05

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 01:00

boo boo wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[quote]That's the nature of progheads, most of us like Symphonic more.

Iván

I guess so.

This is where I wanted to reach

Why do you rant against Prog Archives and our reviews, if it's a general thing?

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 19 2010 at 01:24

boo boo

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 00:32

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

You are clearly saying that Symphonic fans (or fanboys as you say) don't have business reviewing non Symphonic albums

So yes, you said hat Symphonic fans should only review Symphonic albums.

No I'm talking about when they're reviewing something they clearly have a bias against. Like if you think all space rock albums are trash, then reviewing them just proves to me your lack of understanding. Especially if you're gonna judge all prog by the same standards of symphonic prog. So when someone craps on Pink Floyd and Hawkwind for not being terribly skilled instrumentalist, then I think they don't get the point.

Now, about your second statement, I don't like most Prog Metal, but I rated Stymphony X with 5 stars and dared to review Opeth which I rated with 2 stars due to my dislike for growling, but I stated that their music is OK, as me many members do the same.

So everybody should rate whatever they feel rating and nobody should limit this.

I just don't get the point. I'm not saying people should not review anything from a certain genre (I believe I used an expression known as hyperbole, don't take everything I say so literally). But if you're gonna dismiss a whole genre and don't understand what it stands for, then why keep reviewing albums from that genre?

But be honest, your rant was against reiews, maybe you should try reviewing one album and your opinion will change when you notice how hard it is.

I have reviewed albums before though not here. And no it's not really THAT hard. It just requires a lot of free time.

Please boo boo, I was born on a night, but not last night, yourreply was a knee jerk reaction to a joke Epignosis made of ,me rating Olias with one star, and youplaced a lot of emphasis in Symphonic, so you were targeting Symphonic fans

NOT the symphonic team, I wasn't referencing them at all. It's not like they're the only symphonic fans on the forum. I'm talking about the overall consensus of the site.

Again boo boo, for somebody who visits a lot of sites, you know very little about Prog and Prog Archives:

The site doesn't decide which album is in the top 100, it's the rating of:
1. Members
2. Visitors
3. Lurkers
4. Manipulators
5. One band fans
The people who rate and review albums, are the same Prog fans and non fans who visit all the Progressive Rock sites, people from every site visit us to vote and rate, so the top 100 is the clear expression of the Prog community.
Now,a bit of history: Every newbie that comes here, young or old knows at least:
1. Close to the Edge
2. Fragil
3. Tales
4. Relayer
5. Foxtrot
6. Nursery Cryme
7. SEBTP
8. ItCotCK
9. Red
10. Thick as a Brick
11. DSOM
12. The Wall
13. Wish You Were Here
14. Animals
15. Thick as a Brick
16. Darwin
17. Moving Waves
18. Hamburger Concerto
And this people come here and rate this albums they know and love before anything else, so it's logical that people will choose this albums
Most of the bands from the first golden era of Prog are Symphonic, that's not Prog Archives fault, and this bands been here for 40+ years, so again itrs' logcal that people vote for them.
Some of the genres you mention are rather new, like Tech Extreme Metal or Post Rock
Some genes are quite unknown like Rio/Avant, Indo Prog, etc
You must add the albums of some genres in one, like:
1. Eclectic + Heavy Prog + Crossover = Art Rock (21 albums, almost as much as Symphonic)
2. Tech Extreme Metal + Prog Metal + Experimental Metal = Prog Metal (16 albums, a very high number for a genre that was born in the late 80's/Early 90's)
Other genres are quirte complex or acquired taste for a minority, like Zeuhl, Krautrock, Avant/Rio, Indo/Raga Prog or Post/Math Rock, so don't expect too many albums in the top 100, because very few know them
Prog Metal and Jazz Fusion have a totally different root than Progressive Rock in General, so their fans are most likely Metal and Jazz fans primarily, many of whom will never come to a Prog site, except to rate a DT album.
Not all the sub-genres have the same size:
1. Symphonic has 434 bands
2. Canterbury has 49 bands
3. Krautrock has 160 bands (Most barely known)
4. Electronic has 160 bands (Most Barely Known)
5. Indo Raga has 40 bands (All barely known)
6. Zeuhl Has 37 bands (Besides Magma and Sun, all barely known
7. All this genres added are a bit more than Symphonic alone.
Since the early 70's, Symphonic has been the most popular genre everywhere, tha you can't change it.

A lot of your statements is precisely my point. Symphonic is the niche genre of PA and some people dont bother with anything else.

The top 100 is created by members and visitors, we don't have the fault that people everywhere like Symphonic more.

I'm not putting the fault on any specific person. But I do think it's a shame that so much non symphonic prog gets added to PA just to be either trashed or ignored. Stuff that could certainly gain an audience elsewhere if it wasn't so obscure.

We didn't created the genres, most of them existed before Prog Archives was created, we only defined some a bit,

BTW: King Crimson and Gentle Giant have almost every genre elements.

And at the end...What can we do if most bands want to have Symphonic elmments?

I wouldn't say that's the case. Like you said, everything else combined outnumbers symphonic. So there's a LOT more out there.

You must accept that even for musicians Symphonic tends to be more popular, it's a reality that you have to live with, but not in Prog Archives, in every site, I once posted the top 25 albums in Progressiveears and all were almost exactly the same that we had.

I've said before that other sites are like this.

That's the nature of progheads, most of us like Symphonic more.

Iván

I guess so.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: May 19 2010 at 00:03

boo boo wrote:

I'm not saying that people shouldn't review albums that aren't part of their favorite genre. But if for example you think psychedelic rock was the worst thing to ever happen to music then you probably don't have to waste your time listening to Pink Floyd, Hawkwind and Gong records.

Hey Boo Boo, you have a terrible memory, because you said (And I quote):

Anyway. I know everybody's biased somewhat. but it can be pretty painful to read reviews on this site like say when a non symphonic prog album gets reviewed by a fanboy with absolutely no business in reviewing something that isn't symphonic prog

You are clearly saying that Symphonic fans (or fanboys as you say) don't have business reviewing non Symphonic albums

So yes, you said hat Symphonic fans should only review Symphonic albums.

So everybody should rate whatever they feel rating and nobody should limit this.

But be honest, your rant was against reiews, maybe you should try reviewing one album and your opinion will change when you notice how hard it is.

boo boo wrote:

I wasn't targeting the symphonic prog team either, I'm fully aware of the different teams and that the symphonic team isn't particularly larger than the others. But I'm saying that overall this site seems to favor symphonic.

boo boo wrote:

For example, here's the subgenre total from the top 100 albums on PA.

symphonic prog: 22

electic prog: 13

rock progressivo italiano: 10

progressive metal: 9

heavy prog: 7

canterbury: 5

jazz rock/fusion: 5

psychedelic/space rock: 4

zeuhl: 4

tech/extreme prog metal: 4

prog folk: 3

neo prog: 3

experimental/post metal: 3

progressive electronic: 2

crossover prog: 1

rio/avant prog: 1

krautrock: 0

post rock/math rock: 0

indo prog/raga rock: 0

Again boo boo, for somebody who visits a lot of sites, you know very little about Prog and Prog Archives:

The site doesn't decide which album is in the top 100, it's the rating of:
1. Members
2. Visitors
3. Lurkers
4. Manipulators
5. One band fans
The people who rate and review albums, are the same Prog fans and non fans who visit all the Progressive Rock sites, people from every site visit us to vote and rate, so the top 100 is the clear expression of the Prog community.
Now,a bit of history: Every newbie that comes here, young or old knows at least:
1. Close to the Edge
2. Fragil
3. Tales
4. Relayer
5. Foxtrot
6. Nursery Cryme
7. SEBTP
8. ItCotCK
9. Red
10. Thick as a Brick
11. DSOM
12. The Wall
13. Wish You Were Here
14. Animals
15. Thick as a Brick
16. Darwin
17. Moving Waves
18. Hamburger Concerto
And this people come here and rate this albums they know and love before anything else, so it's logical that people will choose this albums
Most of the bands from the first golden era of Prog are Symphonic, that's not Prog Archives fault, and this bands been here for 40+ years, so again itrs' logcal that people vote for them.
Some of the genres you mention are rather new, like Tech Extreme Metal or Post Rock
Some genes are quite unknown like Rio/Avant, Indo Prog, etc
You must add the albums of some genres in one, like:
1. Eclectic + Heavy Prog + Crossover = Art Rock (21 albums, almost as much as Symphonic)
2. Tech Extreme Metal + Prog Metal + Experimental Metal = Prog Metal (16 albums, a very high number for a genre that was born in the late 80's/Early 90's)
Other genres are quirte complex or acquired taste for a minority, like Zeuhl, Krautrock, Avant/Rio, Indo/Raga Prog or Post/Math Rock, so don't expect too many albums in the top 100, because very few know them
Prog Metal and Jazz Fusion have a totally different root than Progressive Rock in General, so their fans are most likely Metal and Jazz fans primarily, many of whom will never come to a Prog site, except to rate a DT album.
Not all the sub-genres have the same size:
1. Symphonic has 434 bands
2. Canterbury has 49 bands
3. Krautrock has 160 bands (Most barely known)
4. Electronic has 160 bands (Most Barely Known)
5. Indo Raga has 40 bands (All barely known)
6. Zeuhl Has 37 bands (Besides Magma and Dun, all barely known
7. All this genres added are a bit more than Symphonic alone.
Since the early 70's, Symphonic has been the most popular genre everywhere, tha you can't change it.

boo boo wrote:

Symphonic has the majority of entries. The top 250 list yields 53 symphonic entries, again the majority. There's only 10 avant prog albums and 8 albums listed as space rock though that includes The Wall which is not space rock at all. So I wasn't wrong when I said that those subgenres are underrated on this website, was I?

The top 100 is created by members and visitors, we don't have the fault that people everywhere like Symphonic more.

boo boo wrote:

Yeah genres like italiano and prog metal have a lot of entries, but then again a lot of italian prog IS symphonic and most of the prog influences in prog metal are symphonic ones. A lot of neo prog is symphonic influenced first and foremost. And the more popular eclectic groups like King Crimson and Gentle Giant have symphonic elements as well and used to be listed as symphonic at one point.

We didn't created the genres, most of them existed before Prog Archives was created, we only defined some a bit,

BTW: King Crimson and Gentle Giant have almost every genre elements.

And at the end...What can we do if most bands want to have Symphonic elmements?

boo boo wrote:

I enjoy a lot of symphonic prog, I'm not saying it's wrong to prefer it to everything else. I'm just saying that it bums me that other subgenres don't get explored as much.

That's the nature of progheads, most of us like Symphonic more.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 19 2010 at 00:15

boo boo

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 22:48

I'm not saying that people shouldn't review albums that aren't part of their favorite genre. But if for example you think psychedelic rock was the worst thing to ever happen to music then you probably don't have to waste your time listening to Pink Floyd, Hawkwind and Gong records.

I wasn't targeting the symphonic prog team either, I'm fully aware of the different teams and that the symphonic team isn't particularly larger than the others. But I'm saying that overall this site seems to favor symphonic.

For example, here's the subgenre total from the top 100 albums on PA.

symphonic prog: 22

electic prog: 13

rock progressivo italiano: 10

progressive metal: 9

heavy prog: 7

canterbury: 5

jazz rock/fusion: 5

psychedelic/space rock: 4

zeuhl: 4

tech/extreme prog metal: 4

prog folk: 3

neo prog: 3

experimental/post metal: 3

progressive electronic: 2

crossover prog: 1

rio/avant prog: 1

krautrock: 0

post rock/math rock: 0

indo prog/raga rock: 0

Symphonic has the majority of entries. The top 250 list yields 53 symphonic entries, again the majority. There's only 10 avant prog albums and 8 albums listed as space rock though that includes The Wall which is not space rock at all. So I wasn't wrong when I said that those subgenres are underrated on this website, was I?

Yeah genres like italiano and prog metal have a lot of entries, but then again a lot of italian prog IS symphonic and most of the prog influences in prog metal are symphonic ones. A lot of neo prog is symphonic influenced first and foremost. And the more popular eclectic groups like King Crimson and Gentle Giant have symphonic elements as well and used to be listed as symphonic at one point.

I enjoy a lot of symphonic prog, I'm not saying it's wrong to prefer it to everything else. I'm just saying that it bums me that other subgenres don't get explored as much.

Edited by boo boo - May 18 2010 at 22:53

Epignosis

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 21:31

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I give you Exhibit A:

Ivan will not tolerate your sh*t.

Approve

Edited by Epignosis - May 18 2010 at 21:45

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 21:28

boo boo wrote:

Anyway. I know everybody's biased somewhat. but it can be pretty painful to read reviews on this site like say when a non symphonic prog album gets reviewed by a fanboy with absolutely no business in reviewing something that isn't symphonic prog because he think's that symphonic prog is the only kind of music that is truly prog and thus the only kind of music that artistically credible. Yeah, there's a symphonic bias on this site, and other prog sites for that matter.

Does this means that a Symphonic fan or specialist must only review Symphonic albums?

Can't we love other sub-genres?

I read silly things in this forum during the past 6 years, but saying that Symphonic fans have no business rating other genres, gets the award to the most absurd statement.

A good example is my ratings average , because I'm a Symphonic fan:

	Sub-genre	Nb of reviews	Avg rating
1	Symphonic Prog	180	3.69
2	Crossover Prog	31	3.71
3	Prog Related	28	3.36
4	Neo-Prog	21	3.86
5	Prog Folk	20	4.00
6	Rock Progressivo Italiano	17	4.35
7	Proto-Prog	17	3.12
8	Eclectic Prog	15	3.33
9	Heavy Prog	15	3.47
10	Psychedelic/Space Rock	14	3.93
11	Jazz Rock/Fusion	14	4.57
12	Various Genres	7	3.57
13	Zeuhl	7	4.00
14	RIO/Avant-Prog	5	4.00
15	Progressive Metal	4	3.00
16	Tech/Extreme Prog Metal	1	2.00

As you see, Symphonic is my favorite sub-genre and of course I reviewed and rated more Symphonic albums, but if you look at the chart, all those marked in red, are albums of other sub-genres and my average of stars in all of them is higher than my average on Symphonic albums.

Starting with the usually despised Neo Prog, the mainstream influenced Crossover and closing with the more complex and elaborate Fusion, Zeuhl and Avant Prog.

So as you can see I have rated 15 other genres apart from Symphonic and the majoriti have a higher average than my beloved Symphonic.

Not even Prog Related is too far from Symphonic, with only 0,33 (3.69 vs 3.36) lower average, so I believe you are ranting for the pleasure of ranting.

If I rated Olias with 1 star, is because I believe it deserves 1 star, but at the same time if I rated The Grand Illusion by STYX with 5 stars (even against the guidelines), is because I believe it deserves 5 stars.

But if one case is not enough, you can check Atkingani's (Guigo) chart (Also member of the Symphonic Team)

	Sub-genre	Nb of reviews	Avg rating
1	Symphonic Prog	56	3.79
2	Psychedelic/Space Rock	31	3.71
3	Crossover Prog	26	3.27
4	Rock Progressivo Italiano	24	3.92
5	Prog Folk	9	3.89
6	Neo-Prog	8	3.75
7	Proto-Prog	7	3.29
8	Eclectic Prog	4	4.25
9	Heavy Prog	2	3.50
10	Progressive Metal	2	4.00

Again he has rated other genres like RPI, Prog Folk, Eclectic and even Prog Metal, with a higher rating than Symphonic and Crossover , and the other sub-genres, with a similar rating to Symphonic.

But if this is not enough, you can chexck MovingPictures 07 (Alex) chart, also member of the Symphonic Team

	Sub-genre	Nb of reviews	Avg rating
1	Symphonic Prog	14	3.36
2	Crossover Prog	9	3.89
3	RIO/Avant-Prog	8	4.50
4	Heavy Prog	8	4.00
5	Eclectic Prog	4	3.50
6	Prog Related	4	3.75
7	Prog Folk	4	4.75
8	Progressive Metal	3	2.67
9	Progressive Electronic	3	4.33
10	Tech/Extreme Prog Metal	2	5.00
11	Jazz Rock/Fusion	2	4.00
12	Neo-Prog	2	4.50
13	Psychedelic/Space Rock	2	4.00
14	Krautrock	1	3.00
15	Zeuhl	1	5.00
16	Canterbury Scene	1	5.00
17	Post Rock/Math rock	1	1.00

Out of 16 other genres he has rated, 13 have a higher average than Symphonic

Last but not least, the other member of the Symphonic Team Tszirmay (Thomas)

	Sub-genre	Nb of reviews	Avg rating
1	Symphonic Prog	100	4.17
2	Neo-Prog	74	4.14
3	Rock Progressivo Italiano	62	4.24
4	Crossover Prog	47	4.02
5	Eclectic Prog	32	4.25
6	Psychedelic/Space Rock	29	4.17
7	Prog Folk	26	4.46
8	Prog Related	25	4.04
9	Jazz Rock/Fusion	24	4.58
10	Heavy Prog	14	4.36
11	Progressive Electronic	10	4.10
12	Canterbury Scene	9	4.78
13	Zeuhl	5	4.60
14	Progressive Metal	4	4.00
15	RIO/Avant-Prog	3	4.33
16	Experimental/Post Metal	2	4.00
17	Tech/Extreme Prog Metal	1	5.00
18	Krautrock	1	3.00

He also has rated more non Symphonic sub-genres higher than Symphonic, and the ones he has rated lower (except Krautrock), are above 4 stars.

So don't tell people what they should and should not rate, I have proved you that the most devoted Symphonic fans, are extremely fair, rating other genres higher and most as high as Symphonic..

So please, don't rant unless you have evidence to support your protests.

boo boo wrote:

Not enough love for the avant prog or space rock.

Two of us four Symphonic Specialists and of course fans, have rated Avant albums, the two of us have given a higher rating to Avant than to Symphonic

The 4 of us, Symphonic fans, have rated Psyche albums three of us have rated this genre higher or at least exactly as high as Symphonic, only one as rated Psyche 0,09 stars lower, which in statistics would be a tie.

boo boo wrote:

And like I said before, too many people treat the "prog related" section as an excuse to rant about albums not being prog and thus "generic radio rock", which is apparrently what everything that isn't prog is. I swear that term has been used to describe everything, King Crimson's Discipline has been called generic radio rock, OK Computer has been called generic radio rock, heck Kid A has probably been called generic radio rock. Has anbody ever called Henry Cow generic radio rock? It's only a matter of time.

Three of us (Members of the Symphonic Team) have rated Prog Related albums, the charts say:

Name	Symph	P. Rel	Difference
Iván	3.69	3.36	-0.33
Alex	3.36	3.75	0.39
Thomas	4.17	4.04	-0.13

Alex has rated Prog Related higher
I have rated Prog Related 0.33 stars lower than Symphonic, but both above 3.30
Thomas has rated Prog Related 0.13 than Symphonic, but both above 4 stars

So again, you are talking without any base.

boo boo wrote:

Not symphonic prog = generic radio rock.

Ok sorry if I'm getting a little angry.

I have proved that if the members of the Symphonic team, and for ths reason the most obvious Symphonic fans (not fanboys) are fair and sober in their ratings, you don't kow what you are talking about.

So don't get angry unless you enjoy ranting as much as I believe you do.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 18 2010 at 21:58

Epignosis

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 21:19

boo boo wrote:

Not enough love for the avant prog or space rock.

And like I said before, too many people treat the "prog related" section as an excuse to rant about albums not being prog and thus "generic radio rock", which is apparrently what everything that isn't prog is. I swear that term has been used to describe everything, King Crimson's Discipline has been called generic radio rock, OK Computer has been called generic radio rock, heck Kid A has probably been called generic radio rock. Has anbody ever called Henry Cow generic radio rock? It's only a matter of time.

Not symphonic prog = generic radio rock.

Ok sorry if I'm getting a little angry.

This is pretty silly, I think.

In the 2009 chart, symphonic starts at #9 (with Transatlantic's The Whirlwind, which is a crew made up of two symphonic prog musicians, one progressive metal drummer, and a neo-prog bassist). Then you do not see symphonic again until #22.

The 2010 chart shows symphonic at #6 and then #12.

If you want to play it by the ratings, then I would say that Zeuhl and RIO/Avant prog have a strong bias here. Of course that wouldn't be true, but it makes a point. Most of the people who review those genres really like those genres, and those who wouldn't like those genres simply do not bother with them at all.

Also, maybe if the avant bands made better music, there would be more love for them. Wink

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

boo boo

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 19:35

I'm listening to Olias right now.

For the record, I love Jon's vocals, never understood when people said he didn't have any emotion, I disagree with that, though a lot of times his vocals serve as a counterpoint, which is something few singers do so you can't really compare him to other singers. He is not at all like other singers.

I also consider him the best actual songwriter in Yes, though Squire isn't too far behind. Just compare their solo works to Howe's work with Asia to see what I mean.

Not enough love for the avant prog or space rock.

Not symphonic prog = generic radio rock.

Ok sorry if I'm getting a little angry.

Edited by boo boo - May 18 2010 at 19:42

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 15:56

LOL Epig....Simple, Jon's voice is a torture for me (Like a dentist drill in my eardrums), and find the music completely boring....At least in Yes he has such great musicians around that balance the torture with pleasure.

Sorry my friend.

BTW: I was expecting insults and even threatens as I received in my PM box when I rated Still Life by Opeth with two stars due to the growls.

Cheers

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 18 2010 at 15:57

Epignosis

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 15:49

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Babak RP wrote:

Hi guys. I'm Babak from Tehran,Iran. I must say,I feel honored to be among fellow prog-lovers. I'm a professional musician (bass player), although I play mostly pop music to make a living.

I've been following PA for a long time and have been enjoying it without feeling the need to post a comment or write a review. But the reason I decided to become a memeber, was PA's review and rating of an album called "After all" by the French band "Eye 2 Eye". This albums is among PA's best albums of 2009. So I decided to get this album,and believe me, it was really difficult. After listening to this albums,I have no choice but to say that it is one of the worst neo-prog albums of 2009 or maybe the last decade!

The songs and the arrangements are mediocre and the guitar player shows signs of narcissism, because he thinks he has to show off from the begining to the end of each song, unfortunately without having the ability to play anything interesting. After all, they sound like a high school band to me.

So, my question is, how come a band like this gets such promotion and excellent reviews in the PA?

Hi Babak and welcome.

As the "Ultimate Prog Rock Resource" Prog Archives has to add every Prog band in the markett, no matter how good or bad it is,

Now each reviewer has a different perspective, for example Gentle Giant is a legend here, but I simply can't stand their music, so don't get surprised if you seea terible album (for you), rated as if it was the eighth wonder, it's natural being that each person has a unique taste.

Keep Proggin' and enjoy the site.

Iván

Case in point:

One star for Olias of Sunhillow, Ivan? What's wrong with you????!!!?!??!?!?!?! Angry

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: May 18 2010 at 15:45

So, my question is, how come a band like this gets such promotion and excellent reviews in the PA?

Hi Babak and welcome.

As the "Ultimate Prog Rock Resource" Prog Archives has to add every Prog band in the markett, no matter how good or bad it is,

Keep Proggin' and enjoy the site.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 18 2010 at 15:46

Tony R

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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
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Posted: May 18 2010 at 15:31

If only there was another site with a better way... Tongue

lazland

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13795

Posted: May 18 2010 at 14:09

Great to see a new member from Iran, Babak - welcome and peace & love from the UK. Not all of us listen to the politicians rattling swords constantly Hug

Of course, most reviews are somewhat biased - they are, after all, based upon the reviewers personal opinion of the work. But, this site is a fantastic tool when deciding what to buy or listen to for the first time. Generally, the series of reviews gives a true average rating for a work. Not always the case, but more often than not.

Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

Windhawk

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 13:25

I see the main criticism of Eye 2 Eye here as points of view as heard from a musician. Personally I'm not a musician, just a listener. And how much or not I merit any release as from my point of view as a guy who is a listener, lacking the theoretical and practical foundation a musician will have ;-)

Another point is that we have quite a few streaming mp3 samples up so that potential buyers can get a notion of what a band and an album sounds like. Not for all artists and albums yet, but this one is among the albums where a preview is available. Didn't that track reveal anything about the nature of the band?

Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/

Proletariat View Drop Down

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 12:55

firstly "biased"

secontly how could PA not be?

honestly dont buy an album based on 3 reviews you know are not objective, and hey PA beats Pitchfork atleast.

who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob

Logan

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Posted: May 18 2010 at 12:43

People are biased.

There is such a thing as objectivity in music, but reviews and ratings show individual biases. The album is only rated at 101 (all categories) for 2009. Considering it's such a recent year that is not a really high ranking. For just Neo Prog 2009, it's at 15 ( I think, I'd written all this out before but my son got at the mouse and I lost my post, so going on a memory a bit). The ratings are between 2 and 5, and the reviews, there are only three of them (all collabs), are 3 stars, 4 stars, and 5 stars (or 5+ to use Marty's ratings method). That is not many reviews and does not indicate much promotion.

I only put ant trust in reviews if I know that the reviewer has similar tastes to mine, and I try to check out myspace or a band website to sample music before buying. Caveat emptor. What's good for one person is not necessarily good for another (and with only a total of 12 ratings overall with a 3.90 average, and only three reviews ranging from 3 to 5, I wouldn't expect much unless I had very similar tastes to the people rating it most highly). Reviewers also have their own ways to judge what;'s worthy or not, but mostly it's down to taste. I commonly find reviewers to be too generous or not generous enough according to my tastes and my criteria (frameworks).

Maybe you should have got the 100 albums of 2009 that ranked higher than that one first (or, if Neo Prog is your thing, the albums that were ranked higher if you didn't already).

You could be the first to write a review expressing your displeasure with the album.

3.90 | 12 ratings
After All...
2009

Even though Neo_prog is not really my thing, I'm curious to hear some of the music now. The band website is listed after the bio, and there is a link at the website to the myspace page. There's plenty of music at the myspace page -- listening now. http://www.myspace.com/eye2eyeband

I'm disappointed, I was prepared for something really bad according to my tastes. I think it sounds pretty good (enjoyable). Not great for me, but not bad at all (rather too derivative to these ears and too "melodic"/ emotional for me, but that's taste). No, not bad at all I think (I don't think I would rate it lowly, and I like it more than a lot of Neo Prog I've heard. I've heard much, much worse music at PA. I don't really like the vocals sometimes, and would prefer it if it had more eclectic instrumentation and sound (musically, it's not complex and does sound really commercial for a "Prog" band). Quite retro. Mixed bag, but sounds pretty professional to me (rather lacking in originality and not as "experimental" as I've come to expect from French music -- would refer French vocals, or Kobaian... ;) ) Seriously I think it's good at what it is -- this coming from someone whose diet is not Neo-Prog or "melodic rock"). Nice.

Edited by Logan - May 18 2010 at 12:45

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