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Rank1 
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 26 2008
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 Posted: April 03 2008 at 19:12 |
 earlyprog wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
I think the fact that Beatles BEGAN as a mere pop act blinds alot of people to the truth: that what they ultimately became was one of the most, if not THE most influencial rock artists of all time. Even bands like Yes and Genesis were influenced by them,, for Christ's sake. |
They played skiffle as The Quarrymen followed by rock'n'roll, R&B and then pop. They possibly introduced rock with Revolver.
To be more precise, I see "A Hard Day's Night" as their (the?) first true pop album but also as the album that launched proto-prog (obviously in contrast with Certif1ed's opinion, see above). Most notably it introduced Harrison's 12-string, later used in excess by many prog acts. AHDN cracked open the US market thus mading a huge impact on the development of music, soon to turn into more proggier stuff. AHDN also departed from music with the typical breaks or semi-breaks.
"Tomorrow Never Knows" is progressive as it changed the way musicians would approach and write music. It brought more freedom into the process of writing music. One aspect of proto-prog which is often overlooked is that it also has to do with how the psychology surrounding the music changed - Tomorrow Never Knows had that effect on music and it "exploded" into new genres, including prog. |
A Hard Days Night was a important album for The Byrds and folk rock in America. Folk was creeping into their work and it was more focused on Beatles For Sale , I' m A Loser and What You're Doing. Also A Hard Days Night had no covers.
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
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Points: 1594
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Posted: April 03 2008 at 11:41 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Dance music? Funny, because in many ways it was one of their first true NON-dance tunes
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Oh, I don't know. I envision Deadheads dancing to it when on their mind altering drugs.
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If you've ever heard Setting Sun by the Chemical Brothers you'll know how close Tomorrow Never Knows is to dance music.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
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Posted: April 03 2008 at 04:39 |
p0mt3 wrote:
I think the fact that Beatles BEGAN as a mere pop act blinds alot of people to the truth: that what they ultimately became was one of the most, if not THE most influencial rock artists of all time. Even bands like Yes and Genesis were influenced by them,, for Christ's sake. |
They played skiffle as The Quarrymen followed by rock'n'roll, R&B and then pop. They possibly introduced rock with Revolver.
To be more precise, I see "A Hard Day's Night" as their (the?) first true pop album but also as the album that launched proto-prog (obviously in contrast with Certif1ed's opinion, see above). Most notably it introduced Harrison's 12-string, later used in excess by many prog acts. AHDN cracked open the US market thus mading a huge impact on the development of music, soon to turn into more proggier stuff. AHDN also departed from music with the typical breaks or semi-breaks.
"Tomorrow Never Knows" is progressive as it changed the way musicians would approach and write music. It brought more freedom into the process of writing music. One aspect of proto-prog which is often overlooked is that it also has to do with how the psychology surrounding the music changed - Tomorrow Never Knows had that effect on music and it "exploded" into new genres, including prog.
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Beckham
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 28 2007
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Posted: April 02 2008 at 13:36 |
rhinn wrote:
Working on the facts stated in this post, would that make the original Dr Who theme progressive? Which was recorded in 1963, if memory serves me right.
If you go through nearly every band in the world, all their music has progressed from the beginning, i thought prog rock was more than that?
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This is progessive for rock music in 1966 recording wise in it's recording techinque like the use of vocals through a leslie speaker. Musically it's a new type of musique concrete in how it uses tape loops that makes a swirling soundscape much like in modern music. You add the beat of this song then you have nothing like it before so this song is progressive certainly.
Strawberry Fields Forever could be the first song that the Beatles did that could be considered prog-rock. Both songs were different and progressive in different genres in my honest opinion.
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 20:42 |
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you seem to be saying two or three different things, but; I agree much music that is labeled as 'Prog' is not.. but so what? It's up to us to recognize that... we're not stupid and those that are fooled by such marketing will have to learn the hard way
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rhinn
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 20:34 |
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I completely disagree, there is a popular movement that this label is trying hard to take all prog and every dodgy relative under its umbrella, and destroy the internet from downloading music. Whether it is available or not.
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 20:24 |
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Big Boss?! I'm my own Big Boss and was simply stating my opinion that there is both traditional and progressive music.. the two are usually distinct and continue to thrive
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rhinn
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 20:21 |
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Read big boss, and your reply would affirm their rertoric.
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 20:17 |
rhinn wrote:
This seems like an advert for Prog Rock Records which would love to call every music under the sun progressive. |
what the hell are you talking about?
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rhinn
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 20:12 |
This seems like an advert for Prog Rock Records which would love to call every music under the sun progressive.
I completely disagree that all music should be described as progressive in the way that prog rock is considered. However, i find that many bands who are covered with the name prog rock (or it's many guises) are far from prog, and it seems to be a way for underhand tactics from certain record companies to obtain music from the masses and make them pay outrages prices.
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 19:56 |
rhinn wrote:
If you go through nearly every band in the world, all their music has progressed from the beginning, i thought prog rock was more than that?
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-- many artists progressed only to a point and settled on a certain sound (or even regressed).. still more made and continue to make traditional music, whether rock, jazz, pop, whatever, and that music may be used as standard for what 'prog' usually veers way from
Edited by Atavachron - April 01 2008 at 20:20
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rhinn
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Posted: April 01 2008 at 19:41 |
Working on the facts stated in this post, would that make the original Dr Who theme progressive? Which was recorded in 1963, if memory serves me right.
If you go through nearly every band in the world, all their music has progressed from the beginning, i thought prog rock was more than that?
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Rank1
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Points: 53
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Posted: March 29 2008 at 18:16 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Only when done by 801.  |
Which means Eno was paying his tribute to this song 
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: March 29 2008 at 08:25 |
Only when done by 801.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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StyLaZyn
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Joined: November 22 2005
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Posted: March 28 2008 at 14:18 |
Atavachron wrote:
Dance music? Funny, because in many ways it was one of their first true NON-dance tunes
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Oh, I don't know. I envision Deadheads dancing to it when on their mind altering drugs.
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Certif1ed
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Posted: March 28 2008 at 09:17 |
Progressive, yes - in many ways, the Beatles were the ultimate progressive band. Only one album (A Hard Day's Night) shows little sign of advancement on previous offerings, unless you meanly count "Let it Be", which was a deliberate (and creative) retro-step.
Prog, no.
The techniques used to make "TMK" (some of which are also used on "Rain", "She Said, She Said" and "I'm Only Sleeping") are blindingly progressive and way ahead of their time - but ultimately, the fab 4 did indeed make something more akin to modern dance music than Prog Rock with "TMK".
There is a thriving Progressive Dance set of genres, based on exactly this sort of methodology - except using the far easier to use computer/sampler based setup. The difficulty in these genres is sorting out the few really creative artists (and there are some!) from the copy and paste merchants.
I agree with the above sentiment that the Beatles blazed the experimental trail - because they were in the enviable position in which they could, both talent/creative wise and financially, and happened to be in exactly the right place at the right time - the music scene(s) practically demanded it of them, and their output bridged many gaps. Of course, you couldn't please every Rolling Stone fan...
While Revolver was the album that changed everything, and Sgt Pepper the only one that could possibly top it, Rubber Soul was the album that kicked it all off and started rock music's advancement from pure entertainment to something altogether more "serious". "Octopus' Garden" aside, of course...
Of the tracks on "Revolver", I'd say that "Eleanor Rigby" is probably closest to Prog Rock - I mean, a pop/rock song set only for "classical" instruments but still feels like a Beatles' song, telling a complete story that is dark and completely outside of popular culture, that pulses with alive rhythms and yet maintains the feeling of a string quartet with finely harmonised voices is just something else!
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 3449
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Posted: March 27 2008 at 20:14 |
Of course it was progressive. The whole damn album was progressive.
But what impresses me to this day, is that there were no computers doing the manipulation. There was no ProTools, etc. Tomorrow is all the Beatles and George Martin sitting in a studio somewhere, playing the music, then actually creating tape loops out of real (reel) tape, splicing and dicing, adding distortion, etc. On probably a four-track machine. sh*t, I have a 16-track digital recorder in my little workshop here at home and I can't even make a decent recording of Love Me Do!
The larger point is that without the Beatles, and their experimentation, and the resulting commercial success, I seriously doubt the record companies at the time would have risked investment in what we now view as truly progressive bands of the time (e.g., King Crimson).
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Chelsea
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Joined: December 10 2007
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Posted: March 27 2008 at 19:55 |
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The album's true highlight is "Tomorrow Never Knows," which was the most radical song recorded in pop music up to that point. John Lennon's voice sounds as if he was high on a mountain top, calling out to anybody who'll listen--or meditate--to his voice. The song has only one chord, but has a swirling soundscape that foreshadows the sampling of late 80s/early 90s hip-hop. The song is comprised of tape loops that were used in a way similar to the modern day use of samples in rap/pop songs. Yes it's not rap or techno but anyone listening the way the tape loops were used know the song was conceptually ahead of it's time.
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: March 26 2008 at 21:32 |
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At the very least you have to say that one has more in common with classic early progressive music than it does with their earlier stuff.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
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Points: 4900
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Posted: March 26 2008 at 18:45 |
Atavachron wrote:
Dance music? Funny, because in many ways it was one of their first true NON-dance tunes
the Beatles were a progressive band till the day they broke up.. the entire catalog, if viewed as a whole, is an astounding and constantly forward-moving display of progression
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THANK YOU!  Couldn't have said it better myself.
I think the fact that Beatles BEGAN as a mere pop act blinds alot of people to the truth: that what they ultimately became was one of the most, if not THE most influencial rock artists of all time. Even bands like Yes and Genesis were influenced by them,, for Christ's sake.
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The Beatles Tomorrow Never Knows Progressive?
