Rush "Snakes & Arrows" (in retrospect)

Re: number of stars.  I understand Logan's perspective; however, this is why a single number (current S+A averages 3.66) is by itself meaningless - one must read the reviews for a more complete picture.  It's why good reviews are essential for this site and why many here stress the need for reviews for obscure or underreviewed albums.  I won't buy something because 10 people slapped the number "4" on it....I need some context as to why it's an excellent addition to my prog collection.

I, too, would rate a solid 4 stars.  My issue is similar to Logan's:

erik neuteboom wrote: ...  "From an objective point of view this album deserves four stars, personally I go for 3,5 stars.""   And I still support my words for 100% because I have so much respect for this awesome and creative trio, lots of clappies for Snakes & Arrows but my personal rating is bit lower than my objective rating, 4 stars, fully deserved!

That is interesting, Erik, so rather like I felt (subjectively I thought two stars, but more objectively I thought higher -- three stars in my case).  I didn't think it was a special enough album for it be an "excellent addition to any Prog collection" (for a Rush collector, sure).  Not to my collection, certainly.  Those rating descriptions really should be altered, imo (although I do respect the attempt to make reviewers more objective).

EDIT: Somewhat apparently contrary to points in my last post, I do also think that every album should be judged on its merits (though it makes sense to factor in other bands and albums for rating comparison sake).  I wonder if some people are giving Snakes and Arrows a high rating (and four is a high rating) simply because it's better than the former album/ albums.  In other words, it's better (or much better) than stuff like Vapour Trails, so the high rating is something of a response to that album, as some might see it.

As seasoned proggers: If this album was one's first experience with Rush, do you think that one would rate it the same?  I speak as a practically non-reviewer/ rater here so I'm interested to get veterans opinions, but don't want to take this thread off track since there are other threads for such discussion, and this really should be about the Rush album.

The fact that it has so many 4 star ratings obviously means that people do consider it very good.

EDIT 2: When I have time I'll come up with a  proper proposal for helping to improve the site, I wonder if the site could usefully have a multi-faceted rating system for albums that involves giving points to categories each with its own criterion for evaluation.  For instance: artistic creativity, technicality, innovativeness, how it compares to other albums by the band, how it compares to albums by other bands in the category which it is placed, and how it compares to the whole of Prog, or something like that (off the top of my head).  I think this is also relevant to the discussion here on how one is rating this Rush album.  of course these will be dependent upon how much the reviewer knows of the band, the category, and progressive music generally... Problematic but that would have to be clearly stated (perhaps it could be alluded to in the reviews).


Edited by Logan - November 29 2007 at 14:52

Following the ratings system at this site:

More objectively I'd probably give it three stars, but subjectively two stars maybe (it's not bad, but not one I'd recommend to people other than people who like Rush, really).  I wouldn't consider the album an excellent addition to any Prog collection; certainly there are quite a number of Rush albums that I would recommend before this one, and consider Hemispheres to be the masterpiece.  At best, sort of, I consider this to be a fine addition to a collection of someone who already likes Rush (for a hardcore Rush fan, every album of theirs is essential).  There are just a great many other albums that I would sooner recommend to prog fans from the various categories.  Even if one just compared to all the other great (subjectively speaking) albums in heavy Prog, I wouldn't rank it that high.  Good album, but not excellent, and not amongst my favourite albums of 2007.  As for the Prog quotient, my favourite album of 2007 is Robert Wyatt's Comicopera, and some people may not consider that very Prog (not sure how I'd rate it, but less than five because Rock Bottom is Wyatt's masterpece as far as I'm concerned and the album I'd be most likely to say that every Prog fanatic should have in his/her collection).

Not only does the rating depend on how much someone likes an album, it also depends on one's rating methodology.  If one considers this to be one of Rush's best albums, and Rush to be one of the best Prog bands, then a four would be very reasonable.  Personally, I'd rather save the five star rating for the album by a band/artist that I think superb and would recommend to someone as a masterpiece of any given category, and four stars for the other albums by a band that I still consider essential.  Course we all have different tastes and not everyone may like an album, but there are those albums that I feel everyone should hear, and those that a great many should hear, even as a footnote in progressive history -- especially when wishing to explore a category, and not just a band, based on my experience, the new Rush was not one that I NEEDED to hear, though I would recommend it to someone who loves Rush as something of a return to form).

 For me Hemispheres is Rush's masterpiece (the five star album), and this album is not as good as Farewell to Kings and Moving Pictures which I'd rate with four stars.  Just think that four and above should be reserved for the best albums of a category, and this is not even amongst Rush's best for me.  Recommended for Rush fans, but not for people getting into Rush or those looking for the great hard Prog rock albums.

But I won't vote since I haven't heard this in quite a while, and just once all the way through at that, and therefore my opinion is moot. So ignore my babbling, iteration and reiteration, I'm just using the keyboard for finger exercises.  I wonder if my opinion will have changed as I didn't like it before.

This is still in my top 5 favorite Rush albums. I feel this is the most soulful release ever by the band.

4 stars.  Every Rush fan should pick up a copy of this, it's well worth it.  Easily rivals Counterparts and is definitely their best work in many years.

4 stars the songs are original and Geddy's bassplay and his bass sound as really matured and and sounds much better in a more proggy context

Ghost Rider wrote: Definitely four stars, probably closer to 4.5. I'll make that clear in my upcoming review. As others have said before, hearing the songs performed life pushed all their strengths to the fore - even though I took to the album right after the first listen. Possibly one of their best albums ever, in my very humble opinion.

I agree. However I feel that three songs: Bravest Face,Good News First and We Hold On are weak compared with the rest of the album. I rated it 4 stars when I reviewed it but I'd put it closer to 4 1/2 stars now because there are 9 very,very good songs on the album. Technically and compositionally it's far more advanced than most of the prog-by-numbers  stuff  that people on this site rave about and many of whom sniff at Rush's Prog pedigree.

I'd up my rating to 4 stars. It's grown on me a whole lot more. Seeing Rush do some songs live helped.