PA PROG OLYMPICS CHAMPIONSHIP

condor wrote:      "You are also making negative statements about the people who disagree with you. Just because they don't see it your way does not mean they have their heads screwed on wrong. There are more constructive ways of expressing differences of opinion." This really takes the relativistic biscuit. I am being negative about people who disagree with me. Sorry, I respectfully think you are totally wrong. I am glad I have to put up with people who misinterpret what I say and are outraged that I think their taste imperfect. Don't tell me. You privately treat people with equal intellectual respect even if they believe in something you hold to be fundamentally false or wrong.

I try to, and I never attack them.


    

The next set of Olympics should be almost entirely different, this was more of a feel to see how people liked it, a beta version if you will.

Just to answer the directly posed questions:

condor wrote: Once again, you have simplified and distorted what I have said. I suggested people who held works such as TAAB as the greatest achivement music has produced (not simply liking or listening to as you falesly claim) have not yet fully realized music's full emotional and progressive power. If they think listening to TAAB induces music's highest emotions, then they are emotionally more primitive. You suggest I "insult" people because I am arrogant and enjoy putting people down. If people were not so reactionary and stubborn they might actually the see the flip-side of "insults". They only time "insults" are wrong is when they criticise characteristics people: cannot change or do not matter. If someone considered Harry Potter the greatest novel written I would think them emotionally underdeveloped (not emotionally stupid as simple-minded believers in dichotomy will probably suggest). The same applies if you consider: Cats the greatest musical, TAAB the greatest album, Twelth Night the greatest play, Indiana Jones the greatest film. Here's a definition of great: "of major significance or importance; "a great work of art"; "Einstein was one of the outstanding figures of the 20th centurey" Try thinking about why Einstein or Marx or Darwin were great rather than just good, then try and apply this to music. If you still think TAAB is the greatest album, you really have got your head screwed on wrong.

The problem is that you are confusing opinion with fact. A comedy can be just as good as a serious piece of literature. It's all in how well it is done. "The Taming of the Shrew" comes to mind, as does "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." But, that is my opinion, and no more or less valid than yours.

You are also making negative statements about the people who disagree with you. Just because they don't see it your way does not mean they have their heads screwed on wrong. There are more constructive ways of expressing differences of opinion.



    
    

Edited by bhikkhu - November 01 2006 at 16:55

Uroboros, do you know what dichotomy is? Do you consider all literary genres equally important?

Red as a manifesto, briefly:
Almost equal prominence and complexity for all instruments
Melding of orchestral and rock instruments together to produce a heavier sound.
Red: using solely instruments to produce verse, chorus and bridge
Fallen Angel: I think the only truly heavy ballad I have heard
Starless: I cannot do this justice so try this description at the bottom.

The greatest album probably hasn't been written yet but it definitely won't be anything like TAAB.

Light and dark people. Some people generally want bands to make them happy, some to scare or disturb them, some in between.

Obviously, I rushed the literary examples although I cannot see why a mainstream work is inherently less challenging. 1984 certainly wasn't mainstream when Orwell tried to get it published. However, the greatest book ever written may be by some obscure science fiction writer which took his/her entire life charting the course of humanity across the universe which we were all too lazy to tackle and recognise for its genius.

Lastly, whoever said it's all opinon, that's simply a relativistic cop-out.

I hold Thick As A Brick as one of progressive music (or music)'s finest works, considering everything. And I have about 1500 albums to back me up as not being primitive or centered on what's wrongly great. So let's not say anything anymore.

Your vote is on Red, you can't see Thick As A Brick as the greatest, that's just great. But nothing more, please...

After all, this is the final of a game that lasted long enough and from which Thick As A Brick resulted, along with Red, as the "greatest" two. Everything is relative, because everything is a game.

less insulting, more voting......





of Thick As A Brick.

OpethGuitarist wrote: Condor you went out to insult people rather than the music, that's where you went too far. You can insult any band all you want, personally I won't care much. However when you say the people who listen to that music are somehow inferior beings, you become an arrogant nuisance.

Edited by Australian - November 01 2006 at 15:47

King Crimson - Red

Firstly, I'm not the kind of jumpy person waiting to be insulted at every opportunity. If you said the same thing about Red, I'd just ignore you; you're wrong. Why would I need to be insulted? Also, try reading what I say. Offended people always simplify one's arguments into absurd extremes or dichotomy that fit their simple mind-set. I've had to explain this to many tedious people like you all my life ("you can't generalise!", "you can't say that" and other rubbish).

Secondly, I said the best. I think TAAB is an excellent album but calling it the greatest is absurd.

It's like selecting a comedy novel as the greatest ever written. No matter how hilarious it is, it will still be a lesser work compared to 1984, Utopia, Brave New World etc because the breadth, importance and grandeur of ideas is less. There are lots of novels I disagree with, which I prefer to many I agree with, simply because the ideas challenge and stimulate more.

I'm sorry I cannot elaborate on the analogy more but think of it like this. Red is almost a music manifesto, TAAB simply a jolly narrative. I think people have been voting for the album that matches their tastes the most ("dark" people for Red; "light" people for TAAB) without considering how progressive i.e. avant-garde the album is.

If more people thought like this Lord of the Rings wouldn't top the Big Read poll for greatest book nor CTTE, SEBTB or whatever for progarchives. Instead, Brave New World or 1984 and Red or Pawn Hearts would.