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micky 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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 Posted: October 11 2006 at 05:52 |
 SolariS wrote:
I think the reason for having a prog-related
section on the website is so that we can have a chance to review and
discuss albums outside the scope of straight prog rock. The site is
just as much about finding new music that fans of progressive rock will
like as it is anything else.
In the end, what is the value of
classification? It certainly does not restrict the music that the
artist produces and in progressive rock, we expect our artists
not to be limited by the classifications given them. Classification
serves the purpose of grouping together artists that listeners of a
certain sub-genre of progressive rock would conceivably enjoy....and in
an open category like 'prog-related', placement of bands depends as
much on the consensus of listeners as it does on qualifications on the
music.
So, I guess I just don't see why we wouldn't include
Bowie in the 'prog-related' category. There are a number of fans of his
on this site, and I'm sure many more that would like to hear him.
Prog-related is not an admission of him as a progressive rock artist.
But he most certainly did some very creative (progressive) things with
his music.
Did he do some prog things with his music? YES
Do a number of people want to see him included so that they can have a chance to review and discuss his music? YES
So? what does it hurt?
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on the surface it hurts nothing.... however.. there is much underneath the surface...
the site seems to be a ticking timebomb...
The Art-Rock sub-genre is being reevaluated... and possibly redone... IF Bowie fits the new vision of what Art-Rock and both of
it's team members, Raffaella and myself, agree then I will add
them. If not on either case then he falls to PR... I think
he is... lots do...however there are many who don't. Adding Prog
Related artists is NOT a priority now.. and as much as I like Bowie and
think he has a place here. It will be a long time before I
will bring him up for addition.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: October 11 2006 at 04:58 |
Art Rock for sure!
I have followed David Bowie for many years and not once would I consider his music anything but great Art Rock. 
As much as I love his music, I do not see a place for him here in PA.
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
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Posted: October 11 2006 at 04:30 |
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Art Rock.
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SolariS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 891
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Posted: October 08 2006 at 15:33 |
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I think the reason for having a prog-related section on the website is so that we can have a chance to review and discuss albums outside the scope of straight prog rock. The site is just as much about finding new music that fans of progressive rock will like as it is anything else.
In the end, what is the value of classification? It certainly does not restrict the music that the artist produces and in progressive rock, we expect our artists not to be limited by the classifications given them. Classification serves the purpose of grouping together artists that listeners of a certain sub-genre of progressive rock would conceivably enjoy....and in an open category like 'prog-related', placement of bands depends as much on the consensus of listeners as it does on qualifications on the music.
So, I guess I just don't see why we wouldn't include Bowie in the 'prog-related' category. There are a number of fans of his on this site, and I'm sure many more that would like to hear him. Prog-related is not an admission of him as a progressive rock artist. But he most certainly did some very creative (progressive) things with his music.
Did he do some prog things with his music? YES
Do a number of people want to see him included so that they can have a chance to review and discuss his music? YES
So? what does it hurt?
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Arrrghus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5296
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Posted: October 08 2006 at 15:32 |
The Wizard wrote:
Art rock, to me he embodies the spirit of the genre. |
Yep.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: October 08 2006 at 15:31 |
Art rock, to me he embodies the spirit of the genre.
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 13:09 |
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Having heard him yesterday for the first time I'd say he could easily be in the prog related genre on this site.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 11:17 |
Dragon Phoenix wrote:
Prog related. But apparently the powers that be already made up their mind that he will not be included. |
Personally, I don't think he fits, even as prog related.
I don't remember any final decision to reject him ever being made though. Even if there was, such discussions seem to come around again, never say never... 
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 10:23 |
Other songs that come to mind are
"The Wild Eyed Boy from Freecloud" and "Sense of doubt"
"Cygnett Comittee" as you mentioned too.
I just feel that Bowie is more deserving to be put in Prog Related than bands like Zep and Sabbath.
Also, in every Bowie poll the majority of voters vote yes.
Edited by WaywardSon - October 07 2006 at 10:23
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 10:15 |
Not sure about the homophobic comment- Bowie is married, in fact has been twice??
I honestly don't see why he'd be here. I have had pretty much everything he's ever recorded, and I couldn't think of THAT many songs he's done I'd call prog. Let me think...'Width Of A Circle', 'Supermen', 'Cygnus Committee', some of the Berlin trilogy instrumentals, 'Big Brother', 'Quicksand'....and that's it. IMO, not really that much to be here. Granted, there are bands here that I doubt the merit of- Triumph and Fairport Convention, say- but to have a 'two wrongs make a right' attitude just won't do, imo. If you were really going to push it you could say Bowie has a right to be here due to the input of Fripp and Eno on his late 70s albums. But even then, by that same token, we would have Phil Collins' solo albums here because he was once in a prog band- a truly heinous sin to any self respecting prog site!! It's just wrong, imo.
I could be wrong here but I'm sure Bowie was rejected as an inclusion by some margin a while back too.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 09:36 |
He is more prog related than half the artists in Prog Related.
The only reason I can think of that he is not there is
People haven´t heard all his albums or some people might be homophobic.
Really doesn´t make any sense at all.
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yesfan88
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 357
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:54 |
cuncuna wrote:
More prog than Iron Maiden. Better artist also. |
I would wholeheartedly agree with that point.
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:34 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
You know, I kind of get the feeling that Bowie gets included with an entire group of artists that get no consideration. Bowie was one of the fathers of New Wave (or post-punk, whatever you want to call it), and those artists get snubbed completely. Talk Talk is the only one that slipped by. There seems to be a stigma attached to that kind of music. That's why there is no talk about The Cure, Depeche Mode, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Love and Rockets, etc. Now I am not saying these bands should be included, but they aren't even discussed (the one that should be seriously considered is Flaming Lips). |
Frankie Goes to Hollywood are one the best-kept musical secrets of mine... I have bookmarked a video on YouTube of them playing "Welcome to the Pleasuredome" (a track I absolutely love) with Steve Howe on steel guitar! However, I'd like to add a new-wave band to your list: that is, Talking Heads - a band that has more than one prog connection (the best-known being Adrian Belew's collaboration with them), and which I have seen mentioned more than once on Italian prog websites. |
I knew I was forgetting someone. 
I guess that was covered in the etc.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:16 |
Yes you are right when you say avante-garde leanings. That´s exactly what I wanted to say, just couldn´t find the word at the time.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:04 |
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Prog-Related.
However, he has the elements of what I'd call classic "Art Rock", that being proggy, but poppy music of high quality, which is what I consider to be Art Rock.
He also has avant-garde leanings as well.
Raffaella: I'd agree with Talking Heads being included.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:54 |
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I think he fits in Art Rock, next to his friend Fripp
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:42 |
cuncuna wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved... |
Yes. Iron Maiden, for example, has been included. The reason that
leads to believe that Iron Maiden is a prog act will remain unknown to
me, even if explained.
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Thinking this way you will never find logic in inclusion here. It
is not that Iron Maiden is prog. It is probably less prog
related than Bowie, but as the people admins prefered Maiden to be
added this time (with a discussion about the pros and cons of them
being added),
they rushed their inclusion when they felt it was useful to the site.
If they feel the same about Bowie they will include them. Now it seems
it is more important to add more genuine prog bands and some
prog-related than to add lots of prog-related just because of one
addition.
Edited by akin - October 07 2006 at 15:23
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:43 |
Tony R wrote:
Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved... |
I agree about the geniune prog bands, it´s just that we seem to be having the same topics in the Proto Prog/Related Lounge, just talking about Queen and Purple.
It would be great to include some more, especially those artists who have strong prog elements.
I would actually consider Bowie, almost as progressive as Rush(of all the cheek and nerve  )
Edited by WaywardSon - October 02 2006 at 13:43
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:29 |
Tony R wrote:
Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved... |
Yes. Iron Maiden, for example, has been included. The reason that leads to believe that Iron Maiden is a prog act will remain unknown to me, even if explained.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:26 |
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More prog than Iron Maiden. Better artist also.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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David Bowie (Genre Poll)
