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Worst prog lyricists
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2024 at 22:49
Peter Nicholls is very polarizing. I personally consider him one of the greatest lyricists in prog. He normally avoids the cringeworthy "moon in June" (heart/apart) rhymes, and uses linguistic surrealism to his advantage. I see the complaints about his lyrics being too "word salad-y" and "not making sense" as absolutely valid though. It's a bit like expressionist art. Also, to me, what sets Nicholls' lyrics way higher than Jon Anderson's in terms of quality is the style. Jon Anderson's lyrics just look so obviously random and 'disguised amateurish' in contrast. It's a bit like comparing Pablo Picasso's abstract pieces to a 5 year old's scribbles.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

 
...
But can you for once stick to the frikkin' topic, Mosh, and list your top worst prog lyricists?

I mean. It's not the first time you COMPLETELY ignore the general idea of a forum topic and instead write some vanilla commentary semi-related to it.
...

Hi,

I'm not sure that you are getting the gist of what I'm saying.

There is no such thing as good or bad in lyrics...
Come on, Mosh -- whatever your "gist" is, I would suggest that you don't even believe in this simplistic notion. There are certainly good and bad lyrics (hell, even horrifically awful lyrics), just as there are good, great and utterly trash novels -- or plays, for that matter.  Given your dilettantish adherence to high-art principles, I find your statement at odds with your constant bashing of music you deem inferior. It seems to be downright hypocritical.  



 

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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 28028 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2024 at 21:46
Lyricists in prog often just stick in a bunch of interesting words that scan well with the music. I have no problem with that at all. Peter Nicholls of IQ is a good example of that and I'm sure you could put a whole bunch of his stuff on this thread. Greg Lake has often been criticised as well. The silly lyrics of Karn Evil 9 Part One might not go down well for many. For me though the music itself is much more important.
BTW In general I'm against negative threads. They are divisive and hopefully this will be shut down.


Edited by richardh - November 11 2024 at 21:47
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

 
...
But can you for once stick to the frikkin' topic, Mosh, and list your top worst prog lyricists?

I mean. It's not the first time you COMPLETELY ignore the general idea of a forum topic and instead write some vanilla commentary semi-related to it.
...

Hi,

I'm not sure that you are getting the gist of what I'm saying.

There is no such thing as good or bad in lyrics, though we might think that some things don't seem right ... any actor KNOWS that one word can be said in 100 different ways, and something written this way or that would likely sound great sung this way, and horrible that way and we would say the lyrics were bad.

And these days, with the Internet, it is even "worse" ... in earlier days we had what was thought of as education, and then literature, and since then it's like ... it doesn't matter ... it's just weird to think that Neal Morse or anyone listed is about bad prog lyrics ... they would not be doing their work if they did not believe in what they do and how.

And "prog" is not the worst offender, if there is such a thing ... I would imagine that yummy yummy I got love in my tummy is really bad ... and almost 60 years old, too! Heck some folks find Chuck Berry lyrics offensive, though you're going to say it's not prog.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2024 at 20:33
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

This is really tough ... I tend to the odd stuff and more experimental, and in that material, the "lyrics" are often a joke, and just a bunch of letters and reminds me of Eno/DBowie way back when putting up what we call 52 pickup ... throwing the card deck up in the air and where it lands, so it is!!! ... and there were a lot of lyrics done by many folks that defy any ideas. I always loved that stuff, because we were all way too inclined to follow the religiosity in the book for its "meaning" ... with total disregard to the fact that these were translations that had been corrupted for years to create an imaginary world for us to believe in ... and guess what is happening here?

I'm not sure that there is/are enough "poets" out there that write stuff and all of it is special ... I'm partial to folks like Roy Harper, where the wording is special a lot of the time ... but that is not something that is appreciated by people that think "meaning" is important ... in the end, it isn't, I never thought ... but a well placed lyric or set of words will always stand up ... and it all kinda becomes a sort of Prufrock ... women, come and go thinking of Michelangelo ... and we do the same thing!

Some think that Peter Hammill is another one way out there ... but his ability is endless and his images are well done, however personal ... genuflection in church ... so to speak ... and some folks don't like it and don't think of it as poetry, or lyrics. Bob Dylan is another ... I think he cares more for the poetry side of it than he does the meaning, knowing that tomorrow he is going to say and sing it differently ... the same song!

Likewise, how do we explain that folks loved Can with Damo, and he had no lyrics ... he was not about lyrics per se ... but the sounds and feelings that came through added something to the music that was neat. BUT, we forget that at the time, there was a HUGE theatrical element experimenting with sound and voice in the theater, and how far to take it ... to make it "real", if possible. But for that to happen we had to throw away the ideas about "meaning", and that is something that we feel we need, and in reality, we don't. We have enough for ourselves in our lives as it is.

Cool. But can you for once stick to the frikkin' topic, Mosh, and list your top worst prog lyricists?

I mean. It's not the first time you COMPLETELY ignore the general idea of a forum topic and instead write some vanilla commentary semi-realated to it.
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=133744
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=133761

Edited by Hrychu - November 12 2024 at 02:59
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2024 at 18:46
Hi,

This is really tough ... I tend to the odd stuff and more experimental, and in that material, the "lyrics" are often a joke, and just a bunch of letters and reminds me of Eno/DBowie way back when putting up what we call 52 pickup ... throwing the card deck up in the air and where it lands, so it is!!! ... and there were a lot of lyrics done by many folks that defy any ideas. I always loved that stuff, because we were all way too inclined to follow the religiosity in the book for its "meaning" ... with total disregard to the fact that these were translations that had been corrupted for years to create an imaginary world for us to believe in ... and guess what is happening here?

I'm not sure that there is/are enough "poets" out there that write stuff and all of it is special ... I'm partial to folks like Roy Harper, where the wording is special a lot of the time ... but that is not something that is appreciated by people that think "meaning" is important ... in the end, it isn't, I never thought ... but a well placed lyric or set of words will always stand up ... and it all kinda becomes a sort of Prufrock ... women, come and go thinking of Michelangelo ... and we do the same thing!

Some think that Peter Hammill is another one way out there ... but his ability is endless and his images are well done, however personal ... genuflection in church ... so to speak ... and some folks don't like it and don't think of it as poetry, or lyrics. Bob Dylan is another ... I think he cares more for the poetry side of it than he does the meaning, knowing that tomorrow he is going to say and sing it differently ... the same song!

Likewise, how do we explain that folks loved Can with Damo, and he had no lyrics ... he was not about lyrics per se ... but the sounds and feelings that came through added something to the music that was neat. BUT, we forget that at the time, there was a HUGE theatrical element experimenting with sound and voice in the theater, and how far to take it ... to make it "real", if possible. But for that to happen we had to throw away the ideas about "meaning", and that is something that we feel we need, and in reality, we don't. We have enough for ourselves in our lives as it is.


Edited by moshkito - November 11 2024 at 18:54
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2024 at 08:23
Hey! There have been a couple of "best" or "favorite" prog lyricist thread. But now, let's talk about our least favorite lyricists in progressive rock for a change. List your picks and include 'samples' of their worst lyric writing. Alright. I'll go first.

5. Jon Anderson
Cast off your garments of fear, replace them with love
Most of all play with the game of the age
Highest of places remain all as one with you
Giving us light and the freedom of the day
And if that firelight, I could match the inner flame
Sacred ships do sail the seventh age
4. Neal Morse
No, no - no corporate ladder
No hometown parade
The fat cats just keep getting fatter
What does it matter
3. Ronald Brand
Noise replaces calmness now
Cramed is the tube
Sweet smells of industry
Breathe the society
2. Patrick Dubuis
At king, at king together now !
Death to, death to, the tyrant !
We'll kill the king and his thieves with him !
No chance, no one will escape.
Come on against the tyrant !
We'll kill the king and his thieves with him !
1. Roine Stolt
Here she comes again, smiling like a horse
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
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