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Disappointing follow-up albums

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 11:46
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I think this is a very good topic and have no problem with it, in case my comment directed towards Moshkito's post was taken differently.  
...

HI,

No worries there at all. As you well know, I have ALWAYS been on the side of the artist, regardless. Sure, it could be said that one album or other is not as good, but, for me, that's like saying I wanted more of the same as the previous album, and that is something I do not like, or enjo at all ... and that is my only bug about a lot of prog rock being so formulaic, but that is not a comment on the musicianship involved, even though it might seem that way. I still listen to them all ... regardless. Again, for me, Beethoven's 9 Symphonies are all great ... and there is no such thing as one is better than the other, and I look at a lot of rock music exactly the same ... I can put on those disks of classical music and love them dearly ... heck, I have 3 versions of Turandot ... or a couple of versions of Tosca because Gigli's voice in one is out of this world ... 

There are a lot of things to find in those "lesser" albums, and in general, I tend not to comment on them much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 11:29
I think this is a very good topic and have no problem with it, in case my comment directed towards Moshkito's post was taken differently.  While I don't like to offend artists, and I think a certain level of tact commonly is advisable when talking about the artists themselves, honesty is important.  I wouldn't like it if we were all a bunch of fanboys just drooling over the artists' oeuvres.  It's normal to prefer some works by artists than others, the artists themselves commonly do, and some of them actually appreciate honest critiques of their works.  When it come to negativity, it's the negativity over the perceived negativity of others that most commonly gets me down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 11:19
One of the very best things about this site is the BRUTAL honesty of the reviewers/posters when it comes to music that is very well outside of the "mainstream" and is in no sense to be thought of as a status symbol. It shows that people really care about this music, to the point of being emotionally invested.

That being said, as the OP I'm a little bit stunned with the comments that this is a "disrespectful/negative" subject to be discussing. All I was thinking when I came up with the original idea was that sometimes the artists we enjoy record/release an album that doesn't live up to our expectations. Even if we take for granted that every album is going to be new and different from previous albums, is it wrong to expect that we will "once again" be pleasantly surprised, based on what they've given us previously? 

As with any artistic endeavor, there are, of course, no guarantees, and we take for granted that ALL artists will change/grow with the passage of time. If anything, we have it MUCH easier today, because we can sample/stream albums before purchasing them, which would have been unthinkable back when much of this music was originally released. I just do not see how it is somehow "disrespectful/disparaging" to desire a return on our investment of time/money, even if we acknowledge from the beginning that the artists who have given us something we enjoy in the past will not/cannot always do so.

Or is the real issue here the DEIFICATION of the artist? Simply because someone creates a work of art does not make them infallible, or somehow a higher-grade of human being who is beyond error and accountability. It's actually rather refreshing to hear a recording artist say in an interview, "We did the best we could, but that album didn't turn out the way I liked." I'm not convinced that saying, "I didn't like Album B as much as Album A that preceded it" is somehow "hurtful" to the artist. Nor does it bring them "down to earth". It's just an acknowledgement that every album is different, and some we like more than others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 10:36
^ That sounds like a great idea for a topic.  Thumbs Up  I might take it on later today if no one else does in the meantime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 09:32
I must admit, I had been thinking... wouldn't it be good if, rather than (or as well as) a thread on 'Disappointing follow-ups' we had a thread where we could think of bands who may have been on a slow downward curve of mediocrity, then maybe fresh blood or impetus causes them to make a surprisingly strong album, that no-one was expecting?

Just a thought... after the recent debacle on my 'underrated albums' thread, I certainly won't be starting another any time soon, but it might be an idea for some of the positivity Greg alludes to?
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 09:03
I notice many more generally positive threads about music than negative if such threads sadden/ bother you.  Of course you are free to share your negative opinions on such things just as others are free to share their opinions. I might suggest, for some, focusing on those, and making one's own, than giving the negative threads more "legs".  While I do like the idea of being sensitive to artists, it is to be expected that as a forum of music fans we do have these kinds of frank conversations about what we like, don't like, unexpected joys, disappointments.....  Since you brought up Maddy Prior in this poll, Part 3 Female singers, this time of groups/collabs, I thought you might have some enthusiasm about her inclusion in this poll, 
Pt. 4: Some Female Singers in PA Not Listed Before, that I made yesterday.  When I make polls I hope that people will find something appreciative to say about any of the listed artists, but I am happy to hear about others too.  I generally do prefer it when people focus on the positive, are more appreciative of artists, topics, posts and other forum members, than those that are disparaging, but for a fuller forum, I would expected a spectrum of perspectives and approaches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2024 at 07:52
Hi,

I know this is not a popular view, but in many ways, I find this thread really sad ... if you were one of those bands, I doubt you would not stand up for your talent and creativity, but now, in the Internet Age we think the fan is the rule and screw the artist ... and I don't think that is right, and it smacks of disrespect, which is now centered on the enduser/fan's money for purchasing something ... when they could have gotten something else!

You can look at Picasso, and in the end, he had over thousands of paintings, or an insane number like that, and of course, some would seem better than the others ... but in the end, the artist went out in a massive blaze of glory for his work, and specially its quantity.

We're working on the process to hurt artists, is what it feel like to me ... so Ian's album is not as "great" in our estimation as some stuff he did before, but he's still the same artist, and he's still good, despite his advancing years. About the only one I dislike, is RW, because of his trashing of YES. I find it hypocritical, that he doesn't know music beyond his likes ...  and thinks only his scales and composition matters in this world ... and he obviously has never heard any other music other than the English variety for the last 50 years ...


Edited by moshkito - July 30 2024 at 07:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2024 at 00:08
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Genesis - Selling England... / The Lamb...
Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old

Totally agree with those two choices. Ideally, The overlong Lamb should have shorn down to a single album. Baa.  [URL=https://emojipedia.org/ewe" rel="nofollow]<h3 ="lc20lb="" mbeuo="" dkv0md"="" style="font-weight: 400; margin: 18px 0px 3px; padding: 5px 0px 0px; font-size: 20px; line-height: 1.3; display: inline-block;]🐑</h3>[/URL]


I often say about double albums, that they would have made more of an impact if they had been edited to a single disk (think: The Flower Kings)... but I can't agree here; the Lamb material holds up all the way through.
Nope. The Lamb is my least fave Genesis. I prefer the pop stuff to The Lamb.

Interesting that according to Steve Hackett in a recent interview said that when they recorded it at the Grange , PG was writing the music in an entirely different room. He had already left the band it seemed. This is not anything new probably but it was interesting to hear it said. Does it make any difference? I tend to think of it as almost as being a solo album much like The Wall was the start of Roger Waters solo career and Floyd had become his backing band. Nowadays I like Lamb more than SEBTP but I can't say that about Animals and The Wall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 22:39
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Genesis - Selling England... / The Lamb...
Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old

Totally agree with those two choices. Ideally, The overlong Lamb should have shorn down to a single album. Baa.  [URL=https://emojipedia.org/ewe" rel="nofollow]<h3 ="lc20lb="" mbeuo="" dkv0md"="" style="font-weight: 400; margin: 18px 0px 3px; padding: 5px 0px 0px; font-size: 20px; line-height: 1.3; display: inline-block;]🐑</h3>[/URL]


I often say about double albums, that they would have made more of an impact if they had been edited to a single disk (think: The Flower Kings)... but I can't agree here; the Lamb material holds up all the way through.
Nope. The Lamb is my least fave Genesis. I prefer the pop stuff to The Lamb.
I think we finally found a topic on which our tastes do not align. Which is not very often, my grumpy friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 13:56
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is my favourite Genesis album, but to each their own tastes, of course.  I find it satisfying all the way through.

There are some albums that I clearly think inferior follow-ups, but generally I was expecting that.  I'm trying to think of something where I came in and was hoping for more based on loving past albums.  *three seconds later* Oh yes, of course, Yes' Close to the Edge.  The time is in the latter half of the 1980s, I'm a teenager in high school.  My very good friend Rob introduced me to Fragile, and I adored it. Months later he introduced me to Close to the Edge as an even better album and it feel quite flat.  I do actually like the first two tracks and it was "Siberian Khatru" that really made me want to replace the tape with Fragile.

More recently, I guess I was a little disappointed with Anna von Hausswolff's All Thoughts Fly at first.  I was not expecting to like it as much as the three former albums being an instrumental (pipe organ) as i like the more eclectic approach of her earlier albums.  Loved Persefone from the get-go.  Now I like it much more for what it is.   I've always liked the pipe organ, including solo, and the most beautiful concert I have been too was a viola and pipe organ concert in Osaka (the location makes it more sentimental to me).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 11:49
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

 Nope. The Lamb is my least fave Genesis. I prefer the pop stuff to The Lamb.

As much as I find that thought truly excruciating Will, I'm sure we're not going to fall out over it... LOL


Edited by Jared - July 26 2024 at 14:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 10:53
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Genesis - Selling England... / The Lamb...
Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old

Totally agree with those two choices. Ideally, The overlong Lamb should have shorn down to a single album. Baa.  [URL=https://emojipedia.org/ewe" rel="nofollow]<h3 ="lc20lb="" mbeuo="" dkv0md"="" style="font-weight: 400; margin: 18px 0px 3px; padding: 5px 0px 0px; font-size: 20px; line-height: 1.3; display: inline-block;]🐑</h3>[/URL]


I often say about double albums, that they would have made more of an impact if they had been edited to a single disk (think: The Flower Kings)... but I can't agree here; the Lamb material holds up all the way through.
Nope. The Lamb is my least fave Genesis. I prefer the pop stuff to The Lamb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 10:51
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old


The timing of TOTRTYTD is unfortunate. Minstrel makes a wonderful lead-in to the "folk trilogy," but then this album that sounds a few years late pops up. I mean, I like it, but it sounds like it should've been released before WarChild, if that makes any sense.
It does make sense, but I like Warchild much more than Too old.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 10:04
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

5. Presence has Achilles Last Stand. Maybe the birth of prog metal. Nuff said.
Maybe it is and maybe it's not. It's ten minutes of fantastic music, that's for sure. I personally count Nobody's Fault but Mine among Led Zeppelin's classics as well. So while all in all Presence may be my least favorite studio album of theirs (excluding Coda), it's still essential and not to be missed. As far as I'm concerned all of their albums are. I do understand where Steve Wyzard is coming from, but I happen to think that Physical Grafitti is kind of patchy as well. The highs on the that album would make for an absolutely perfect two (or three) sided LP, but I'm rarely do I feel like spinning the D-side, and spoil the mood after Ten Years Gone is over.

Thanks for your thoughts on Led Zeppelin. I agree that "Achilles Last Stand" is one of the best things the band ever did. It's the rest of Presence ("Hots on for Nowhere" notwithstanding) that merited its inclusion on my original list. And while Physical Graffiti may be my second favorite Led Zep album, I agree that it's not perfect. I always skip over "In My Time of Dying" and "Sick Again" from that one.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 10:01
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old


The timing of TOTRTYTD is unfortunate. Minstrel makes a wonderful lead-in to the "folk trilogy," but then this album that sounds a few years late pops up. I mean, I like it, but it sounds like it should've been released before WarChild, if that makes any sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 09:55
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Genesis - Selling England... / The Lamb...
Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old

Totally agree with those two choices. Ideally, The overlong Lamb should have shorn down to a single album. Baa.  

🐑


I often say about double albums, that they would have made more of an impact if they had been edited to a single disk (think: The Flower Kings)... but I can't agree here; the Lamb material holds up all the way through.
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 07:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 05:09
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Genesis - Selling England... / The Lamb...
Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old

Totally agree with those two choices. Ideally, The overlong Lamb should have shorn down to a single album. Baa.  

🐑

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 04:24
Genesis - Selling England... / The Lamb...
Jethro Tull - Minstrel... / Too Old

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2024 at 01:51
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

5. Presence has Achilles Last Stand. Maybe the birth of prog metal. Nuff said.
Maybe it is and maybe it's not. It's ten minutes of fantastic music, that's for sure. I personally count Nobody's Fault but Mine among Led Zeppelin's classics as well. So while all in all Presence may be my least favorite studio album of theirs (excluding Coda), it's still essential and not to be missed. As far as I'm concerned all of their albums are. I do understand where Steve Wyzard is coming from, but I happen to think that Physical Grafitti is kind of patchy as well. The highs on the that album would make for an absolutely perfect two (or three) sided LP, but I'm rarely do I feel like spinning the D-side, and spoil the mood after Ten Years Gone is over.
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