Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What on earth is Richard Sinclair doing?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

What on earth is Richard Sinclair doing?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
rcarlberg View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: February 12 2014
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rcarlberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 15:22
No apology req'd.  In fact I'm happy for ANY feedback, TBH.

If you have any suggestions... or ideas... or tapes... or photos...

For instance. When I first started the thing I was putting everything in strict chronological order--it was logical and easy.  However as the count rose to a hundred albums it became clear, from the daily stats of what people looked at, that stuff at the top of the page got the lion's share of views.  So I started putting new stuff--regardless of recording date--at the top of the page.  The result is a horrible mish-mash of new & old all mixed together.  I'm not happy with it, but can't figure out what to do about it.

Maybe after a month at the top, stuff should be shuffled down into chrono order.  I dunno, what do you think?

Also, one of the advantages of BandCamp is that you can go in and change anything at anytime.  I've had several bootlegs where a better copy turns up later -- should I move it to the top of the page?  Leave it in the middle? I've used descriptors like "remastered" or "new master" to try to let folks know...
but again, no clear best answer.
Back to Top
Mirakaze View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Eclectic, JRF/Canterbury, Avant/Zeuhl

Joined: December 17 2019
Location: (redacted)
Status: Offline
Points: 4229 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 14:44
Uhh, reading my post again I may have leaned a little too much into my sardonic side. On the internet it's sometimes easy to forget that the people you're calling out are humans instead of non-descript bits of data and text. Charging money for music that you didn't create still strikes me as being in poor taste (not that you'd particularly need to care about the opinion of some angry internet rando) but the fact that you did in fact ask permission from most of the original creators and from the other members of Camel/Hatfield/NHealth resolves my biggest concerns right off the bat. I apologize for simply assuming without proof that you hadn't.
Freelance composer, accepting commissions | Bandcamp page
Back to Top
rcarlberg View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: February 12 2014
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Points: 43 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote rcarlberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2023 at 11:29
Originally posted by Mirakaze Mirakaze wrote:

It's one thing to offer a subscription program on Bandcamp and then flood your page with bottom-of-the-barrel junk ranging from terrible quality live recordings, playback sessions and decades-old interviews, but then his page also charges money for content created by other people - presumably without their knowledge or consent - be it covers of songs from bands he was in (regardless of whether he actually wrote or even played on those songs), songs containing samples of music he played on, and even entire audio tracks ripped from YouTubers reviewing Caravan or Hatfield albums. There's already a question to be asked about whether it's good conduct to be the only member of a band to profit off of recordings made by that band, but to try and make a quick buck off of music of which he had no involvement at all in its production, made by completely different people playing songs he didn't write is just disgraceful in my opinion. For the sake of his own reputation I really hope this page is operated by some manager type person and not by Mr. Sinclair himself.


Hey Mirakaze.  Yes you're right, Richard's BandCamp page was not created by him, it was created by me, Robert Carlberg, a "manager type person" -- with Richard's consent.  He is still limited to an iPhone due to there being no internet connection in his home in Martina Franca, Italy, so he's not as involved as I wish he was.

I take your suggestions seriously and with consideration, my friend.  It's true I've put up a lot of content where Richard does not play, and I've been a little nervous about that. In most cases I've gotten the permission of the people responsible, but even when I haven't been able to, nobody has complained (yet). I do try to provide links to the original content creator, and to places where readers can buy the content if it's for sale. YouTube content is offered online for free anyway.  Richard did ask specifically that I not post Hatfield, Caravan or Camel original recordings because they're still on the market.

Most other stuff, like all the Voiceprint and HTD and similar CDs are out of print now, and/or the record companies are out of business, and royalties paid to Richard have dropped to zero.  It is his feeling that if it's something he's created, and the company he contracted with to sell it is no more, then the rights to sell it revert back to him. Are any of these companies going to hire lawyers to contest the €20 or 30 he's made?  They haven't yet.

And then there's bootlegs.  Nobody from a band bootlegged make a farthing, so they're fair game. I have been busy finding the best versions online (which as you note, usually aren't very good) then cutting them into tracks, EQing and normalizing and removing noise and glitches, and then putting up the best version I can offer. It's better that Richard derives an income from his life's work than some yahoo who sells a miserable sounding dub of a dub of a dub, full of misinformation and wrong titles (which happens a lot).

I've put up the interviews I've found on YT as free downloads, because they're informational, not entertainment. I suspect most people would listen ONCE for free online, and not bother downloading it. By the way, the ratio of PLAYS to PURCHASES hovers right around 100:1 for everything, so Richard's page is more of a library than a bookstore. Most of the cover versions I've put up for a single Euro, because I don't want to be in the position of giving away somebody else's hard work... but at the same time these people are offering the videos free on YouTube or SoundCloud without paying any licensing fee to the composer. Downloads of these are essentially zero, naturally, since they're "informational". But I like highlighting the wonderful creativity of Richard's many young fans all across the globe.

I've contacted musicians and friends Richard has recommended, to try to get them to share memories and tapes.  Mostly everybody has been very eager.

Former bandmembers not sharing in the revenue? Dave is the only living bandmate from Hatfield, and he's given his consent.  I haven't heard from Pye one way or the other, but I've been careful to respect his copyrights. Andy Ward and Andy Latimer are all in.

My goal has been to tell the story of Richard's career, from 1963 to present. He's been involved in a lot of bands, a lot of musicians have covered his songs, and he's played a lot of "guest appearances." He is "the voice of Canterbury" so I figure his BC page should be sort of a Canterbury Scene cheering section. I can picture a listener spending an afternoon (or two...) browsing the vast Canterbury legacy documented there, good, bad, weird and otherwise. By reading his words and watching his interviews and listening to his music, you can get a pretty good feel for Richard himself, who is a singular presence.

Is a lot of it "bottom-of-the-barrel"?  Yes it is!  Richard has "boxes and boxes" of unreleased tapes (hopefully not moldy yet) but without any way to digitize them and send to me, I'm operating all on my own with what I can find online, what his friends will send me, and what he himself sent me 30 years ago. I'm trying to pave the way for the day, hopefully soon(?), when Richard can start sending me new files to post.  He's promised 2024 is the year he gets organized.

Another word in my defense. If you've ever talked to Rich in person or on a videocall (which he LOVES) you know that he is a whirlwind, a kaleidoscope of activity. His mind leaps from puns to anecdotes to singing lyrics to whimsy to serious, all in one sentence. To some extent, the BandCamp I've created for him reflects his personality, intentionally.

So honestly, I value your advice. Should I drop the price to $0 on everything where he does not play?  Is $10 too much for albums/concerts where he DOES play? Should I drop the interviews, or the cover versions, or the tracks where Richard is merely a paid sideman?

I get precious little direction from Richard.  I'm not even sure how much of the site he's seen. I know he's getting contacted by fans and musicians from all over the world, and he's made €3000 from 33,000 listeners over 238 albums. He's just happy to see his music getting out in the world again.

The details are up to us.
[email protected]

Edited by rcarlberg - February 05 2024 at 07:39
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Offline
Points: 5689 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2023 at 08:14
Originally posted by duchamp duchamp wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by duchamp duchamp wrote:

boomers

*respected elders

you are a cisgender heterosexual

I'm what? I was referring to this post xD:
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

I actually thought about adding the word "boomer" to the banned list so that it would replace the text with "respected elder".
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
duchamp View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: December 25 2023
Location: the north pole
Status: Offline
Points: 73 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duchamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2023 at 08:06
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by duchamp duchamp wrote:

boomers

*respected elders
you are a cisgender heterosexual
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Offline
Points: 5689 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2023 at 17:10
Originally posted by duchamp duchamp wrote:

boomers

*respected elders
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
duchamp View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: December 25 2023
Location: the north pole
Status: Offline
Points: 73 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duchamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2023 at 13:48
i mean i hope it isn't but you gotta expect that from boomers who've gained notoriety on some field sometimez. they're bound to do mezzed up thingz

Edited by duchamp - December 25 2023 at 13:48
Back to Top
Lumenko View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 28 2023
Location: Donaubecken
Status: Offline
Points: 1196 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lumenko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2023 at 08:30
It is interesting that in the prog community (whatever that means), a debate developed for and against those releases. Personally, I'm on Mr. Richard Sinclair's side. I think that he is morally justified in releasing all those bootlegs. He also has legal standing under Italian law because Mr. Sinclair is settled in Italy, and these are now Italian editions; legally speaking, he is doing nothing wrong.
Also, it begs the question: why should it be net-label pocket money if any of that work would eventually be released on a net label when Mr. Sinclair could independently release it all on Bandcamp and receive a portion of the proceeds?
Regarding the quality, anyone can assess whether the album lives up to their audiophile criteria by listening to the full release on the Bandcamp page. Ultimately, in the liner notes, Mr. Sinclair himself frequently cautions about the recording's poor quality, stating that it is only recommended for enthusiasts, or highlights the sound quality on certain recordings; for instance, this recording from 1974 has rather good sound quality:
Back to Top
Mirakaze View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Eclectic, JRF/Canterbury, Avant/Zeuhl

Joined: December 17 2019
Location: (redacted)
Status: Offline
Points: 4229 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2023 at 07:40

It's one thing to offer a subscription program on Bandcamp and then flood your page with bottom-of-the-barrel junk ranging from terrible quality live recordings, playback sessions and decades-old interviews, but then his page also charges money for content created by other people - presumably without their knowledge or consent - be it covers of songs from bands he was in (regardless of whether he actually wrote or even played on those songs), songs containing samples of music he played on, and even entire audio tracks ripped from YouTubers reviewing Caravan or Hatfield albums. There's already a question to be asked about whether it's good conduct to be the only member of a band to profit off of recordings made by that band, but to try and make a quick buck off of music of which he had no involvement at all in its production, made by completely different people playing songs he didn't write is just disgraceful in my opinion. For the sake of his own reputation I really hope this page is operated by some manager type person and not by Mr. Sinclair himself.
Freelance composer, accepting commissions | Bandcamp page
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.497 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.