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Topic ClosedWhat would improve CD’s

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Poll Question: What could make CD’s better?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [6.38%]
5 [10.64%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [12.77%]
13 [27.66%]
7 [14.89%]
1 [2.13%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [6.38%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.13%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
8 [17.02%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2004 at 18:06
I am a vynil junkie and hate the over produced sound of CDs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2004 at 14:29
Does lifting beer cans count ????????????????????? 

Hmm.............I guess not
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2004 at 00:37
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Probably I'm a purist and like to have the album exactly as it was released by the authors, I don't want to listen what a producer or a label searching for money decide is better to add.

I don't care for the lenght if a band releases an album with 80 minutes of music it's better (specially if they don't sacrifice quality for quantity as Jim said, but if the band releases an album with certain songs, I want to listen it that way.

If a band has many B sides or unreleased versions, there's always the chance to release a special album after the band is dead so we can have some new stuff after we believed we would never hear something new.

Iván

The question is... What would make a CD buyer (You) more inclined to buy a CD?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 22:41

Probably I'm a purist and like to have the album exactly as it was released by the authors, I don't want to listen what a producer or a label searching for money decide is better to add.

I don't care for the lenght if a band releases an album with 80 minutes of music it's better (specially if they don't sacrifice quality for quantity as Jim said, but if the band releases an album with certain songs, I want to listen it that way.

If a band has many B sides or unreleased versions, there's always the chance to release a special album after the band is dead so we can have some new stuff after we believed we would never hear something new.

Iván



Edited by ivan_2068
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 16:13

Lower prices, better sound quality. Muchos older prog albums rereleased on cd sound sh*t. A simple remastering job will do, but seemingly most labels are reluctant to do that, or they do when you've already bought the damn cd out of despair. I bought KC's 'Islands' twice, the old version sounds excruciatingly bad, the remaster sounds 300 times better.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 14:41

Personally, I love "bonus tracks", they often offer an interesting insight into the history of the tracks on the albums. The Caravan and Yes bonus tracks for example are excellent. In Caravan' case, on the "New Symphonia" album, they were used to recreate the concert in full.

You can always use the stop, skip or programme buttons on the CD player if you don't want to hear them!

I thought the way the Marillion remasters had the exta tracks on a separate CD was a great idea. The original albums were left untouched on one CD for the purists, with a plethora of extras for folks like me on the other!Big smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 09:21
I don't care if an album is short. Gentle Giant - Three Friends was worth all the money I paid for it!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 06:52
A common gripe, this one

The CD format can carry approx 80 minutes of music, but when you have 1970's albums being re-released on CD, they are rarely more than 45 minutes long, so unless a huge amount of unreleased material (of decent quality, one would hope) can be unearthed, we end up buying a half full CD.

Mind you, on the other side of the coin, many new bands try to fill as much of the CD as possible, resulting in quantity, rather than quality(no names, no pack drill, no mention of the Red Hot Chilli Peppers).

I always prefer quality to quantity.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 05:25
I just buy'd an album, where there only was 45 min. of music, thats not enough when there can be, up to 90. min. i had it, there schould be some more music on the albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 03:25
I agree with most of what's been said above, but would also put in my 2 cent's worth regarding packaging.

I dare say we all have the same problem in that if the jewel case is not broken when we buy a brand new CD (at least the CD retaining tabs), then it will be within 2/3 weeks.

The manufacture of jewel cases is not rocket science, and it is possible to make them more sturdy. We know this, as the ones we have to buy to replace the original cases are always of a higher quality. If I were of a cynical bent, I would summise that the manufacturers do this deliberately in order to get us to shell out more money......


Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 03:12

Extra live tracks sounds good to me.ELP's 'Trilogy' (Sanctuary r/m) has a previously unreleased live version of 'Hoedown'.I'd rather have that than some 'making of footage' personally. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2004 at 01:10
Originally posted by ivan_2068 ivan_2068 wrote:

Imagine somedody adding tracks to The Lamb or In the Court of the Crimson King, those masterpieces are perfect the way they are.

Like what happened regarding most of the Fish era albums (e.g. "Script for a Jester's tear", "Clutching at Straws", "Fugazi"...) and some of the Hogarth ones when bonus tracks and extra Cds where added up... remastering could be dangerous yet useless sometimes 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2004 at 23:58

Quote Bonus tracks are tolerable (the yes ones were very good) but i think they shouldn't spoil the flow of an album.

Can't agree more with you Frenchie, I hate bonus tracks, the albums must be released the way the author designed  them.

The bonus tracks may be great in some cases (Not ususally IMHO) but those songs change the real format of the album.

Imagine somedody adding tracks to The Lamb or In the Court of the Crimson King, those masterpieces are perfect the way they are.

Iván

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2004 at 19:40
i really like dvd footage. of anything.
*Remember all advice given by Asuma is for entertainment purposes only. Asuma is not a licensed medical doctor, psychologist, or counselor and he does not play one on TV.*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2004 at 18:27
Bonus tracks are tolerable (the yes ones were very good) but i think they shouldn't spoil the flow of an album. The worst bonus track ever was putting "Ambuletz" on the uk edition of the mars volta - deloused in the comatorium. the song was good but i think adding a song to a concept album like that ruins the flow of the album. I would much rather see the album as it is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2004 at 18:25
I really like Digipaks are a good idea. It was great to see some of the classic Yes albums in lush fold out packaging with lots more pictures. Just makes it seem more special and proffesional.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2004 at 16:26
I vote for Making The Album, Beacuse, so you can see how much they been working to get the Album, ones I seen one by a Danish Band where i get disaapointet Beacuse they just f**ked the album and just wanted to be finish with it there was no love  with the cd.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2004 at 08:07

There's a separate discussion for the relative merits of the formats

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=864&am p;PN=1

I for one would be seriously interested in your "waxings", Dick!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2004 at 07:47
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Although it's very expensive, the poor sound of cd's is the first problem!!!

When you have a real hifi-system with a good CD and a good vinyl, and when you compare an original vinyl to the latest CD edition, the CD is unbearable...

Very debatable. I read somewhere if there was more than 15 minutes a side of a 12" vinyl disc, then the analogue signal derived from the mechanical movement of a stylus would increasingly get attenuated, i.e. sound quality is sacrificed. Therefore long albums (e.g. many of the Genesis early releases) were compressed with the loss of both upper and lower frequencies - it was a revelation to hear the trembly crispness of the cymbals on those Genesis albums, when first released on CD, (previously clipped for the vinyl releases). However, without remastering what  often had been clipped for vinyl release and then put back in the mix  came too much to the front on CD. The unmastered CD Jean Luc Ponty Enigmatic Oceans, has too much cymbal up front to my ears.

Then how good or bad was the pressing technology - in my experience of the late 60's, Decca and Deram never seem to bothered with QC of pop and rock albums (all seem to be concentrated into their classic labels) and the surface noise of their LPs could be dreadful. Faster the vinyl discs were moulded the greater the risk than they would warp - polycarbonate used for CDs is a much more superior material and more than adequate for the job. Add to that the amount of reused vinyl going into the each disc and therefore a big risk of crud affect surface/play quality. And then the damage from stylus wear, dust pick-up and the crap recommended to clean discs (which added rather than took away surface contamination) all added to vinyl disc deterioration. Find Todd Rundgren's Initiation album on vinyl, and there is a clear recommendation on the sleeve advising you to copy the disc on to cassette or reel to reel before a stylus caused too much surface damage - there is approx. 30 minutes a side on that record.

Final point, when first introduced a CD production line could have up to 80% rejection rate (explaining to a limited extent the price difference with vinyl in the mid 60's - but there was also the massive Sony/Phillips patent royalty element). However, within 5 years of CD mass production, with improvements in clean room technology, rejection rates were lower than those vinyl pressings ever achieved. The technology had got so reliable that CDs with a Beethoven symphony were being made and given away at plastics exhibitions (i.e. away from the controlled environment of a factory) from the beginning of the 90's. In 1995, I was told by the MD of Nimbus Records, then contracted to EMI pressed up the remastered Floyd catalogue on CD, that the cost per CD fully packaged with insert card and all, was 55p per disc - it is cheaper now.

Moreover, a real good CD player is very very expensive (at least 15000 dollars,

no joking)...

 

Ditto audiophile decks and styluses. And I sometimes wonder if difference in performance (whether comparing CD players or comparing decks and styluses) can only be detected using electronic equipment (e.g. an oscilloscope)

 BTW anybody forked out for one of these laser based decks (cheapest I've seen here is 3 grand), said to eliminate surface wear - I would be concerned by surface radiation damage of the vinyl. As a professional materials engineer I have long thought that the vinyl chloride/vinyl acetate copolymer used for LPs, to be a poor materials selection - I know of a much better material with much better reproduction and wear properties.

 

 

 

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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2004 at 07:06

Altough it's very expensive, the poor sound of cd's is the first problem!!!

When you have a real hifi-system with a good CD and a good vynil, and when you compare an original vynil to the latest cd edtion, the cd is unbearable...

Moreover, a real good Cd player is very very expensive (at least 15000 dollars,

no joking)...

 

 

 

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