lack of metal knowledge in some reviews

avalanchemaster wrote: King of Loss wrote: Its Progarchives, not Metal-archives. Try reading some Prog reviews on there ironically I prefer a lot of the reviews on here over the Metal Archives reviews......

That is my point actually.

King of Loss wrote: Its Progarchives, not Metal-archives. Try reading some Prog reviews on there

ironically I prefer a lot of the reviews on here over the Metal Archives reviews......

Its Progarchives, not Metal-archives.

Try reading some Prog reviews on there

CCVP wrote: ClassicRocker wrote: CCVP wrote: Yeah, i know. Just wished that the albums had a more "fair" number rating and not a symbolic position due to the number of reviews. About the Fates Warning, i still think that it deserves some kind of merit position, like Operation: Mindcrime. You know, outside the top 20 and with the sayings: "essentials albums to the building of the genre" Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen that labeling (the "essentials"). Maybe something with my browser(s)? Anyways, if that is there, then that label would be fitting for the first prog metal album. @ the direction this thread has taken that labeling don't exist, i just think that it would be fitting for prog metal and extreme prog metal.

Well, let's expand upon that. Maybe an "improvement to the site" topic should be started regarding an "essentials to the genre" label for different albums? It could easily be done for more than just metal - all genres. But then again, that might get shot down by arguments saying that's what ratings are for...
Whatchoo think CCVP?

CCVP wrote: ClassicRocker wrote: First of all, Pain of Salvation's most rated "Key Album" still has less than 1/2 of the reviews of Images and Words. And Scenes has over 600. The number of reviews does make a difference (of about 200-400 for those examples) that can spell a major change in the album's rating. You also must keep in mind that the first prog metal album is not necessarily the best; those two are mutually exclusive. Yeah, i know. Just wished that the albums had a more "fair" number rating and not a symbolic position due to the number of reviews. About the Fates Warning, i still think that it deserves some kind of merit position, like Operation: Mindcrime. You know, outside the top 20 and with the sayings: "essentials albums to the building of the genre"

Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen that labeling (the "essentials"). Maybe something with my browser(s)? Anyways, if that is there, then that label would be fitting for the first prog metal album.

@ the direction this thread has taken


Edited by ClassicRocker - May 03 2008 at 22:48

CCVP wrote: ClassicRocker wrote: CCVP wrote: yeah, guess that PtH was not a good example, but Dream Theater is. Their albums have more 5 star reviews than Thick as a Brick, Selling England by the Pound and Wish You Where Here (in  absolute numbers) but its grade is greatly lower. PS: here a mean Scenes from a Memory and Images and Words What?! Both are on the Progressive Metal Key Albums page and have a 4.20 and 4.21 average. It's really not that big of a deal if their averages aren't quite as high as "classic" prog albums. They have only existed for 10-15 years! Quite an achievement to have such a good average! true, but other key albums are not present on the page such as Fates Warning Awaken the Guardian (said to be the 1st prog metal album) and other bands that are not as known as Dream Theater such as Pain of Salvation have better grades because people don't have such a reactionary feeling against bands they don't know. So DT ends up being the judas of the story, receiving many unfair reviews because its better known. That i can see better in other prog forums where people don't know prog metal: there they associate prog metal = Dream Theater.

First of all, Pain of Salvation's most rated "Key Album" still has less than 1/2 of the reviews of Images and Words. And Scenes has over 600. The number of reviews does make a difference (of about 200-400 for those examples) that can spell a major change in the album's rating.

You also must keep in mind that the first prog metal album is not necessarily the best; those two are mutually exclusive.

avalanchemaster wrote: I am rather bothered by the fact that this site collectively does not seem to know much about metal at large.  I do not think that Protest The Hero sound anything like System of a Down.... if people knew more about metal than what they are exposed to (by radio or other pop outlets) maybe they would know more about it and be able to make better assertions about metal.  I am not trying to say I know everything about metal, but I am rather insulted by a lot of the opinions of the genre and its subsequent sub-genres.  It seems that many people are content to listen to tip of the iceburg bands in any genre, and then they will claim they know a lot about said genre.  Now I don't claim to know everything about prog, but I know a fair shake, although I am sure a lot of you older more seasoned folks could school me with your expertise.  I guess I am just a little (perhaps neurotically) offended by the lack of knowledge that seems apparent on here.  When I go to the tech metal section/list of bands, I see a lot of one star reviews for bands that are known in the subgenre of metal for being exemplary.  It seems that a lot of old school prog heads or people who DO NOT NORMALLY listen to metal are flexing their prog muscles and sh*tting on certain metal bands because they find no merit in (the music...which is most likely not their "prefered genre)  I find it sad that people are turned off by nuances such as growl vocals or rapid fire playing.  It is all just music and perhaps should be explored at length like any other musical style before severe knee-jerk responses (ad hominem attacks and one star reviews????  get a life.) are put up.  If a band is deemed good enough by the collective to be included in the prog archives, why are we even allowing one star reviews?  I think it unjustly skews any decent reviewing. I am not a vindictive, angry person by nature, so I do not find it necessary to "backlash" against a newly popular band and attack relentlessly with senseless reviews and one star-isms. thank you. Rant over.

ClassicRocker wrote: CCVP wrote: yeah, guess that PtH was not a good example, but Dream Theater is. Their albums have more 5 star reviews than Thick as a Brick, Selling England by the Pound and Wish You Where Here (in  absolute numbers) but its grade is greatly lower. PS: here a mean Scenes from a Memory and Images and Words What?! Both are on the Progressive Metal Key Albums page and have a 4.20 and 4.21 average. It's really not that big of a deal if their averages aren't quite as high as "classic" prog albums. They have only existed for 10-15 years! Quite an achievement to have such a good average!

true, but other key albums are not present on the page such as Fates Warning Awaken the Guardian (said to be the 1st prog metal album) and other bands that are not as known as Dream Theater such as Pain of Salvation have better grades because people don't have such a reactionary feeling against bands they don't know. So DT ends up being the judas of the story, receiving many unfair reviews because its better known. That i can see better in other prog forums where people don't know prog metal: there they associate prog metal = Dream Theater.

1800iareyay wrote: CCVP wrote: but they still cause a large problem. Check protest the hero's album a see the amount of ratings without reviews or with REALLY short reviews. Thats an example. Actually, the vast majority of the ratings without reviews on that album are four and five stars, and the one star reviews are longer than a number of the five stars. Hell there is literally a four-sentence (if you could call the last one a sentence) review that is one of the most useless things I've seen. Actually, pretty much all the reviews on that page are really short, with the exception of the one PR review (Chris').

yeah, guess that PtH was not a good example, but Dream Theater is. Their albums have more 5 star reviews than Thick as a Brick, Selling England by the Pound and Wish You Where Here (in  absolute numbers) but its grade is greatly lower.

PS: here a mean Scenes from a Memory and Images and Words


Edited by CCVP - May 03 2008 at 22:18

sinkadotentree wrote: My history exactly Atavachron,which is why i love prog-metal and it's sub genres.Like Pnoom i tend to value certain reviewers opinions because they have the same taste as me,which is why i feel it's important to rate cds the way i see it.If i feel it's a 2 star that's what it's going to get.It's subjective right? I don't feel i'm sabotaging an artist or album,it's just an opinion. If i see a 1 star for something i really like i kind of roll my eyes and move on.Sometimes it's hard not to take it personally though if it's a cd i love.

me too