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Topic ClosedDigital Audio Myths - Listening on a PC

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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2005 at 03:02
It's very complicated to do a musical converter.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 18:03
I wonder if there's a PC audio card that simply does musical upsampling like the audiophile CD players ... and yes, oliverstoned, it IS theoretically possible to do that on the PC.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 16:17
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

You don't need specs to tell you the pc can do as good a job as a player, Mike, your ears are already telling you that it can. Ignore oliver- audiophiles are always like this. I don't need fancy graphing images to tell me how good the sound is. My ears do a pretty good job all on their own. 
That graph tells me that there's compression, and my ears have already told me that compression sounds band (in this contex only, of course). Good enough for me.

I did a bit of reading on the X-Fi "Crystalizer", and I don't think that it uses compression in any way. I'm still looking for more meaningful graphs ...

Edit: Have a look at this ... looks like the Crystalizer tries to reverse the compression that was applied when the signal was mastered to the CD:

http://www.de.tomshardware.com/video/20050719/creative-x-fi- 04.html

It uses a big-ranging EQ though, and seemingly enough to cause clipping, which in a roundabout way has the same effect as compression. I'm not able to read all the German on that site, but judging from the graphs, the processing on the second one assumes that every peak is compressed. Maybe that's not too bad an assumption to make these days, but it'd mess around with the peaks of a well mastered recording, and it seems to raise every peak to the same level, which gives the impression of a kind of dynamic variation (I'm sure it may well improve poorly done CDs, don't get me wrong) but it's only improving from one level to two. I'm getting somewhere near the end of my knowlege now, I'll get back to you in four years when I have a degree
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 15:29
The other factor that's not being discussed is personal time. It's sad, but I just don't set aside enough time solely for listening to music...there's almost always something else going on. So almost all of my music time comes either when I'm in the car (stock CD player) or working (PC with Echo Gina soundcard into Grado SR60 headphones). Add that to a somewhat limited budget for music, and an audiophile approach for me would be wasted- and, honestly, even if I had more money than I knew what to do with, I'd probably just spend it on more albums.

Of course, as an old deadhead taper, I'm probably calloused towards poor sound quality. But high-bitrate mp3's are fine with me.

BTW cobb: how's the hoontech? I thought of picking one up- they sound great, especially for the price...but the company makes me nervous (kind of a crappy website, not many US distributors, etc.).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 13:55
 
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



You're a fan of the psychedelic painter Alex Grew, i see.

I even have posters and a t-shirt . fits with all the prog


Edited by king of Siam
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 07:07
Alex Grey, i mean.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 07:07
Originally posted by king of Siam king of Siam wrote:

audiophiles are crazy. i just dont get it
anywho i have a 75 watt 5.1 system its really good esp when i blast stuff like magma



You're a fan of the psychedelic painter Alex Grew, i see.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 05:25
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I don't know how many CDs you're planing to archive ... I would recommend an external 200GB hard disk. I ripped my 650 CDs in 128-192kbps mp3 (VBR), and now I'm ripping many of them again in lossless format because it just sounds so much better.

How many CDs will it be?

Don't know. There is no plan. I will not be buying anything extra...

Have you tried WMA 64kbps or 96kbps? IMO it sounds much better than mp3 with extremely low bitrates.

You can also consider ripping in two different formats, your favorite albums in 128kbps and the others in 64kbps ... or just rip your favorites.


 I have been using WMA variable at the moment. Or I could use MP3pro in Nero. The reason I prefer using WMP though is it creates the folders for you, unlike Nero!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 04:58
audiophiles are crazy. i just dont get it
anywho i have a 75 watt 5.1 system its really good esp when i blast stuff like magma
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2005 at 04:21
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I don't know how many CDs you're planing to archive ... I would recommend an external 200GB hard disk. I ripped my 650 CDs in 128-192kbps mp3 (VBR), and now I'm ripping many of them again in lossless format because it just sounds so much better.

How many CDs will it be?

Don't know. There is no plan. I will not be buying anything extra...

Have you tried WMA 64kbps or 96kbps? IMO it sounds much better than mp3 with extremely low bitrates.

You can also consider ripping in two different formats, your favorite albums in 128kbps and the others in 64kbps ... or just rip your favorites.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 20:11
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

I don't know how many CDs you're planing to archive ... I would recommend an external 200GB hard disk. I ripped my 650 CDs in 128-192kbps mp3 (VBR), and now I'm ripping many of them again in lossless format because it just sounds so much better.

How many CDs will it be?

Don't know. There is no plan. I will not be buying anything extra...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 17:19
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

You don't need specs to tell you the pc can do as good a job as a player, Mike, your ears are already telling you that it can. Ignore oliver- audiophiles are always like this. I don't need fancy graphing images to tell me how good the sound is. My ears do a pretty good job all on their own. 
That graph tells me that there's compression, and my ears have already told me that compression sounds band (in this contex only, of course). Good enough for me.

I did a bit of reading on the X-Fi "Crystalizer", and I don't think that it uses compression in any way. I'm still looking for more meaningful graphs ...

Edit: Have a look at this ... looks like the Crystalizer tries to reverse the compression that was applied when the signal was mastered to the CD:

http://www.de.tomshardware.com/video/20050719/creative-x-fi- 04.html



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:56

Fun with Audiophiles!

Here's some stupid audiophile tricks you can get people to do - kids don't try this at home!
  1. Exclaim that you can easily hear polarity differences, and than get your favorite audiophile to spend the next hour trying to hear a difference on their favorite Chesky recording while you flip the polarity switch back and forth on their Theta Generation V. Be sure to mention that it sure was easier hearing the difference at your friend's house using their Levinson No. 23 with the glass interface, but that their cables are probably clouding the differences.

  2. Point out anything wrong with the stereo you are listening to you can think of (hint: standing waves, put on a rock and album and complain the treble is harsh). See if you can get your audiophile to try and calculate the room nodes based on it's size, and than mention to take into account the ceiling height.

  3. Make up theories about imaging, especially height effects for things like cymbals and center images (such as the bass, snare drum). See if you can actually discover any new laws of physics!

  4. Write letters to the editor of an audio magazine stating that you won't buy their magazine anymore because a) they trashed your speakers which you know are great since your cousin Ralph and his girlfriend said so, b) somebody who writes for their magazine used lewd language, c) the integrity of their reviews has gone down, d) they are racist, or e) the Smice clock they told you to buy didn't really make a diference after all.

  5. (Experienced hackers only): Open up a Krell preamp and put a tube preamp (such as a conrad johnson PV-11) inside. Bring it around with you to people's houses and claim tubes suck and you can prove it. Compare your Krell to their preamp, making special note of it's timbral purity, air and detail, and lack of added euphonics (while at the same time maintaining the essence of music). Another fun trick is to put a Sony discman inside of a three chassis alleged CD player/transport (you usually have to do this at home), and show them what CD is "really capable of". Be sure to play CDs like "Peter, Paul and Mary's Greatest Hits", "Ravi Shankar and Jim Croce - duets" while doing this.

  6. Go to anybody's house with a new stereo and say things like "I think the crossover is hosed", "Too bad you have so many standing waves in here", "the imaging is weird", "the midrange isn't right, I think you need different speakers for this room, or at least try to move the speakers around" (especially if the speakers weigh over 100 lbs, and are spiked into the floor). Chew on pretzels loudly.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:54
Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

You don't need specs to tell you the pc can do as good a job as a player, Mike, your ears are already telling you that it can. Ignore oliver- audiophiles are always like this. I don't need fancy graphing images to tell me how good the sound is. My ears do a pretty good job all on their own. 
That graph tells me that there's compression, and my ears have already told me that compression sounds band (in this contex only, of course). Good enough for me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:48

I don't know how many CDs you're planing to archive ... I would recommend an external 200GB hard disk. I ripped my 650 CDs in 128-192kbps mp3 (VBR), and now I'm ripping many of them again in lossless format because it just sounds so much better.

How many CDs will it be?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:38
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

No, I don't think so. Why would you want to use mp3pro?

Same sound quality at lower bitrate.

I was using mp3pro a few years ago and in the end I didn't like it. I ripped many CDs in 128kbps mp3pro format, but the problems with mobile players were annoying, and the quality isn't THAT better. mp3pro makes sense if you're using 64kbps - the results pretty much sounds like mp3 128kbps. But 128kbps mp3pro unfortunately doesn't sound like 256kbps mp3.

What do you need the ripped files for?

Just for my hard drive, trying to be as space saving as possible. I was talking about the 64kbs rate as it happens!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:35
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

No, I don't think so. Why would you want to use mp3pro?

Same sound quality at lower bitrate.

I was using mp3pro a few years ago and in the end I didn't like it. I ripped many CDs in 128kbps mp3pro format, but the problems with mobile players were annoying, and the quality isn't THAT better. mp3pro makes sense if you're using 64kbps - the results pretty much sounds like mp3 128kbps. But 128kbps mp3pro unfortunately doesn't sound like 256kbps mp3.

What do you need the ripped files for?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:25
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Can I ask something here, I hope its ok.

Is it possible to rip Cds to MP3 using Windows Media Player aand using MP3 Pro?

No, I don't think so. Why would you want to use mp3pro?

Same sound quality at lower bitrate.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:20
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Can I ask something here, I hope its ok.

Is it possible to rip Cds to MP3 using Windows Media Player aand using MP3 Pro?

No, I don't think so. Why would you want to use mp3pro?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2005 at 16:04

Can I ask something here, I hope its ok.

Is it possible to rip Cds to MP3 using Windows Media Player aand using MP3 Pro?

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