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Ivan_Melgar_M 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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 Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:21 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yes it is, society has the right to protect itself.
Iván |
It does? That's strange since it's not a person. |
Of course, society is a community of persons who accept to live under determined laws.
Iván
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:21 |
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Wait, even when you smoke tobacco you will agree it should be illegal?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:19 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
So you argument is that when people smoke pot they become a problem for society. |
I say some become
Equality 7-2521You have no concept of personal freedom so I won't argue that point. But your solution is to criminalize the smoking, thus making everyone who smokes it a problem for society. [/QUOTE wrote:
Personal freedom ends when it's a risk for society
BTW; People who smoke are a problem for themselves, addiction to nicotine doesn't induce yo |
Personal freedom ends when it's a risk for society
BTW; People who smoke are a problem for themselves, addiction to nicotine doesn't induce you to heavy drugs, but with the later limitations, I'm sure smoking will be illegal soon, and even when I smoke tobacco, I will agree.
Iván
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:17 |
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Don't get too cocky now Pat...
Ivan, maybe you missed it so I'll repeat it.
Do you really think most people smoke weed or don't on it being illegal/legal?
If it is legalized, most who don't will continue to do so. Some will try it. Some of those will continue, some will stop.
Thinking otherwise is a bit silly or naive maybe. Once it's legalization has been around for a while it won't even be a "big deal" anymore. Those who want to will, those who don't wont.
If you disagree then fine.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:16 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yes it is, society has the right to protect itself.
Iván |
It does? That's strange since it's not a person.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:16 |
So you argument is that when people smoke pot they become a problem for society.
You have no concept of personal freedom so I won't argue that point. But your solution is to criminalize the smoking, thus making everyone who smokes it a problem for society.
What exactly was accomplished?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:14 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
BTW II: No making pot illegal won't eliminate consumers, but making it legal will multiply the users. |
Doesn't bother me as long as they don't cause me any problems.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:13 |
Hanyou wrote:
Then punish the stealing. |
Addicted people suffer shorter prison terms according to our law and most states in USA.
Hanyou wrote:
Anything can potentially turn anyone into a "problem for society." That's not sufficient justification. |
Yes it is, society has the right to protect itself.
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:11 |
JJLehto wrote:
Alcohol is a much larger problem and I don't see it being criminalized any time soon. In fact, if you made pot and cocaine legal, you would destroy the main source of income of the drug cartels.
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Being alcohol legal, doesn't justify making pot also legal....Make alcohol illegal and I say nothing,
BTW: Also SOME cocaine users function normally in society, I know judges, owners of big companies, ministers and even a former President who was said used cocaine...But that's not an excuse to make it legal.
BTW II: No making pot illegal won't eliminate consumers, but making it legal will multiply the users.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 16 2011 at 21:11
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:06 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? .
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Because when people become addicted, they turn into a problem for society.
People may say pot is harmless, but that's BS, I seen a lot of people who started with pot and ended living bellow a bridge (stealing of course) when marihuana wasn't enough
Iván |
So when marijuana is illegal people don't do it?
Seems like a problem with that reasoning.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:05 |
JJLehto wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? It seems to me the argument for disallowing the "harder" drugs is the very same as the argument for prohibition of alcohol or marijuana--which is why it confuses me when someone is for the legalization of marijuana but decides to just stop there.
I'm for the legalization of marijuana and harder drugs. Untaxed, unregulated legalization. |
Yeah I got to say this to you too JJ.
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And this time, (THIS TIME) you made me rethink my beliefs, k?
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I do that every time 
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:05 |
CCVP wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? .
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Because when people become addicted, they turn into a problem for society.
People may say pot is harmless, but that's BS, I seen a lot of people who started with pot and ended living bellow a bridge (stealing of course) when marihuana wasn't enough
Iván |
Alcohol is a much larger problem and I don't see it being criminalized any time soon. In fact, if you made pot and cocaine legal, you would destroy the main source of income of the drug cartels.
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Another valid point! From Caio of all people  Do you want alcohol to be illegal Ivan? Because we know for a fact it can be highly addictive, damaging, and can tear families apart and leave people as thieving bums on a street. It's legal and heavily advertised.... The gateway theory Ivan. OK, I'll give it to you. That CAN happen. But I'll counter your personal experience with my own. Major pot heads that function normally in society. Even major pot heads that went on to try shrooms, acid, ecstasy, even DMT. Would never touch cocaine or heroin in their lives. Besides, potheads are filling jails in the US. Maybe if we got rid of all those people, some of that space can be used for those people you mentioned Ivan. As well as those committing more serious crimes.
Edited by JJLehto - January 16 2011 at 21:06
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:58 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? .
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Because when people become addicted, they turn into a problem for society.
People may say pot is harmless, but that's BS, I seen a lot of people who started with pot and ended living bellow a bridge (stealing of course) when marihuana wasn't enough
Iván |
Alcohol is a much larger problem and I don't see it being criminalized any time soon. In fact, if you made pot and cocaine legal, you would destroy the main source of income of the drug cartels.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:57 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? It seems to me the argument for disallowing the "harder" drugs is the very same as the argument for prohibition of alcohol or marijuana--which is why it confuses me when someone is for the legalization of marijuana but decides to just stop there.
I'm for the legalization of marijuana and harder drugs. Untaxed, unregulated legalization. |
Yeah I got to say this to you too JJ.
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And this time, (THIS TIME) you made me rethink my beliefs, k?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:56 |
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? It seems to me the argument for disallowing the "harder" drugs is the very same as the argument for prohibition of alcohol or marijuana--which is why it confuses me when someone is for the legalization of marijuana but decides to just stop there.
I'm for the legalization of marijuana and harder drugs. Untaxed, unregulated legalization. |
Oh I'm not opposed to that either. BUT I'm also a realist. Debating is cool but in real life there is no chance of all drugs being made legal, ever. So I was just saying I'd be OK with that scenario. And just a side note, IMHO "harder" is not everything outside marijuana. Shrooms, LSD, pretty much the psychedelics are the "lesser" ones. And here's where I am not a libertarian. I am ok with drugs being regulated and taxed, clearly you are not 
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Hanyou
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2010
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 101
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:53 |
Then punish the stealing.
Anything can potentially turn anyone into a "problem for society." That's not sufficient justification.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:49 |
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? .
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Because when people become addicted, they turn into a problem for society.
People may say pot is harmless, but that's BS, I seen a lot of people who started with pot and ended living bellow a bridge (stealing of course) when marihuana wasn't enough
Iván
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:32 |
Hanyou wrote:
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? It seems to me the argument for disallowing the "harder" drugs is the very same as the argument for prohibition of alcohol or marijuana--which is why it confuses me when someone is for the legalization of marijuana but decides to just stop there.
I'm for the legalization of marijuana and harder drugs. Untaxed, unregulated legalization. |
Yeah I got to say this to you too JJ.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:30 |
timothy leary wrote:
where did i say everyone smokes pot, did not happen except maybe in your fantasy 'Liberteria"
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Errm you called everyone who argues for pot a pothead essentially.
You're like the Walter of political threads, except I give Walter much more credit.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Hanyou
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2010
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 101
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:27 |
But JJLehto, if you're not supposed to impose your morality on other people, who are you to say that people shouldn't be allowed to expose themselves to the risk of harder drugs? It seems to me the argument for disallowing the "harder" drugs is the very same as the argument for prohibition of alcohol or marijuana--which is why it confuses me when someone is for the legalization of marijuana but decides to just stop there.
I'm for the legalization of marijuana and harder drugs. Untaxed, unregulated legalization.
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Should marijuana be legalized?
