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micky 
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 Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:38 |
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^ where is that interview. I was going to ask you about that. On your blog or done for someone else? That was a really interesting interview, especially about the scene there. I learned a bit myself listening to you interview them. Quite the interesting scene they have there.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:33 |
 Lear'sFool wrote:
micky wrote:
one note.
I think you may be underestimated Hansson's overall impact in prog. Ask any Swedish band who are their prime influences and his name comes up. He was considered a living legend there. He is the father of the progressive music scene there and no country today has a more vibrant progressive rock scene. Not to mention being very popular in his own right back in the day in England and the states.
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Ah, that would be why there was Anglagard and the other Swedish prog revivalists of the early nineties. My mistake. You learn something new everyday here on PA. |
Indeed. When I interviewed Alexander Skepp and Gabriel Tapper of Gosta Berlings Saga at NEARfest 2012, they told me that Bo Hansson had been one of the biggest influences on their music (and they are not exactly a retro-prog band).
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micky
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:30 |
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no mistake. The onus is on the fun aspect, but just a note that the list wasn't done totally pulled from my ass. If they are on the list they fit the criteria, my point being, once you got past the real movers and shakers (say the first 10 or 15 bands that had SIGNIFICANT impact) you could flip coins for the next big bunch of 60 or 70 important bands. I sort of went all encompassing. Lots of choices for lots of tastes. That is why .. what.. 10% of the list are prog metal bands. It is supposed to be fun, and inclusive. One could have easily left it at DT and Opeth or even ignored prog metal entirely as some are prone to do haha.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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LearsFool
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Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
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Points: 8644
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:21 |
micky wrote:
one note.
I think you may be underestimated Hansson's overall impact in prog. Ask any Swedish band who are their prime influences and his name comes up. He was considered a living legend there. He is the father of the progressive music scene there and no country today has a more vibrant progressive rock scene. Not to mention being very popular in his own right back in the day in England and the states.
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Ah, that would be why there was Anglagard and the other Swedish prog revivalists of the early nineties. My mistake. You learn something new everyday here on PA.
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micky
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:17 |
Lear'sFool wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
I know I’m coming in late, here, folks, but I cannot help but react to some of the band choices based on Mickey and Raff’s initial criteria of “overall impact, influence and popularity.”
GLARING OVERSIGHTS:
Who has had more impact and influence than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill?
Who is more popular than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken?
Have bands like Talk Talk, Traffic, Osanna, Ange, Atheist, Bo Hanssen and Diablo Swing Orchestra really had more “overall impact, influence and popularity” than National Health, UK, Khan, Solaris, Eloy, Neurosis, Iona, Big Big Train, or Kayo Dot? than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill? than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken? Really?!! I mean REALLY??!!!!!! |
Ange and Bo Hanssen are definitely weaker choices, maybe Mickey would be open to swapping. IQ should be first up to be swapped in.
Atheist made really big ripples in most of the metal world in their heyday. Two fantastic albums right when Death went prog/tech. Popular and at the least opened to door to Cynic, really death jazz is their creation.
Miles was, unfortunately, disqualified due to being such a massive genre buster throughout jazz. He has three really big phases with cool, modal, and fusion, and then so much more, so he was thought of as so transcendental a jazz figure that he didn't fit in. Tough choice.
The Maiden is extraordinarily popular, of course, but they aren't too much into prog. Including them would certainly lead to complaints about them being included.
Gabriel is popular, but ended up with more influence in World music rather than prog, or even post-punk and industrial off of [Melt].
Schulze has no where near the visibility of Tangerine Dream and Kraftwerk, so unfortunately he's at the back of the line. Larger groupings would and should include him.
National Health isn't even the most well known here on the Archives. Plus I don't see much influence beyond Canterbury revivalists. I love their self titled, but I would resist including them.
Khan is one of our hidden gems. And again, I don't see so much influence.
Big Big Train and Haken are well known and loved here, but haven't influenced much as of yet. Later brackets like this would probably include them as bands take after these modern giants.
Iona? I don't get it.
Just wanted to try and explain some things. And it is rather difficult to make these and inevitably they're incomplete.
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one note. I think you may be underestimated Hansson's overall impact in prog. Ask any Swedish band who are their prime influences and his name comes up. He was considered a living legend there. He is the father of the progressive music scene there and no country today has a more vibrant progressive rock scene. Not to mention being very popular in his own right back in the day in England and the states.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:01 |
BrufordFreak wrote:
I know I’m coming in late, here, folks, but I cannot help but react to some of the band choices based on Mickey and Raff’s initial criteria of “overall impact, influence and popularity.”
GLARING OVERSIGHTS:
Who has had more impact and influence than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill?
Who is more popular than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken?
Have bands like Talk Talk, Traffic, Osanna, Ange, Atheist, Bo Hanssen and Diablo Swing Orchestra really had more “overall impact, influence and popularity” than National Health, UK, Khan, Solaris, Eloy, Neurosis, Iona, Big Big Train, or Kayo Dot? than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill? than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken? Really?!! I mean REALLY??!!!!!! |
 It is a game Drew. I generally tried to consider some factors in picking groups, but once it went to 64 we didn't conisider that as much as fun bands and potential fun matchups. Honestly once you get past the first 10-20 bands in terms of influence and importance.. the next 50 or 60 could be tossed into and drawn from a hat. Some will get left off unless we went to 128 
Edited by micky - November 27 2014 at 15:02
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 15:00 |
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Just to clarify, I haven't had a lot to do with the selection of the 64 bands currently listed in this game. I do not have a lot of time these days, and when I am at home I generally have a lot of other things to do. In any case, the current list of bands has taken the suggestions of other posters into account, and - as I have stated on at least a couple of occasions - is not based on our personal tastes. I love Khan and National Health, but I don't see them as influential in any way.
As to Iron Maiden, they are one of my favourite bands, and I agree that they are both influential and popular - but many people don't agree with having them listed as Prog Related, let alone prog. Many of the bands and artists in PR are way more popular (even a commercial sense) and influential than most full-fledged prog bands: before including Iron Maiden, we should have included Queen, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple at the very least.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
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Points: 21343
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 14:53 |
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Magma created a whole genre!
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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LearsFool
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Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 14:52 |
bhikkhu wrote:
^^^It's a game guys! It doesn't really matter who is included and who is not. |
Looking back, I have no idea why I decided to respond.  I do dumb things sometimes. Oh well.
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 14:44 |
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I don't like Magma so i think we could get rid of them after all since when did they influence anyone or really, they're about as popular as a dose of the clap.
(This post has absolutely nothing to do with my irrational adoration of Hawkwind and anyone who insinuates otherwise is an internet bully).
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Help me I'm falling!
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bhikkhu
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 14:12 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
GLARING OVERSIGHTS - BANDS I LIKE!!!
GET RID OF - BANDS I HATE!!!
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Guess I shouldn't be surprised. People who have no actual connection to real sports teams take that way too seriously as well.
Sure When Michigan gets knocked out of the tournament I feel bad for John Behlein and the guys but it has no direct effect on me.
Edited by bhikkhu - November 27 2014 at 14:14
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 13:35 |
BrufordFreak wrote:
GLARING OVERSIGHTS - BANDS I LIKE!!!
GET RID OF - BANDS I HATE!!!
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Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - November 27 2014 at 13:36
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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bhikkhu
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 13:33 |
^^^ It's a game guys! It doesn't really matter who is included and who is not.
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
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Points: 8644
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 13:07 |
BrufordFreak wrote:
I know I’m coming in late, here, folks, but I cannot help but react to some of the band choices based on Mickey and Raff’s initial criteria of “overall impact, influence and popularity.”
GLARING OVERSIGHTS:
Who has had more impact and influence than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill?
Who is more popular than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken?
Have bands like Talk Talk, Traffic, Osanna, Ange, Atheist, Bo Hanssen and Diablo Swing Orchestra really had more “overall impact, influence and popularity” than National Health, UK, Khan, Solaris, Eloy, Neurosis, Iona, Big Big Train, or Kayo Dot? than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill? than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken? Really?!! I mean REALLY??!!!!!! |
Ange and Bo Hanssen are definitely weaker choices, maybe Mickey would be open to swapping. IQ should be first up to be swapped in.
Atheist made really big ripples in most of the metal world in their heyday. Two fantastic albums right when Death went prog/tech. Popular and at the least opened to door to Cynic, really death jazz is their creation.
Miles was, unfortunately, disqualified due to being such a massive genre buster throughout jazz. He has three really big phases with cool, modal, and fusion, and then so much more, so he was thought of as so transcendental a jazz figure that he didn't fit in. Tough choice.
The Maiden is extraordinarily popular, of course, but they aren't too much into prog. Including them would certainly lead to complaints about them being included.
Gabriel is popular, but ended up with more influence in World music rather than prog, or even post-punk and industrial off of [Melt].
Schulze has no where near the visibility of Tangerine Dream and Kraftwerk, so unfortunately he's at the back of the line. Larger groupings would and should include him.
National Health isn't even the most well known here on the Archives. Plus I don't see much influence beyond Canterbury revivalists. I love their self titled, but I would resist including them.
Khan is one of our hidden gems. And again, I don't see so much influence.
Big Big Train and Haken are well known and loved here, but haven't influenced much as of yet. Later brackets like this would probably include them as bands take after these modern giants.
Iona? I don't get it.
Just wanted to try and explain some things. And it is rather difficult to make these and inevitably they're incomplete.
Edited by Lear'sFool - November 27 2014 at 14:09
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 12:38 |
I know I’m coming in late, here, folks, but I cannot help but react to some of the band choices based on Mickey and Raff’s initial criteria of “overall impact, influence and popularity.”
GLARING OVERSIGHTS:
Who has had more impact and influence than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill?
Who is more popular than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken?
Have bands like Talk Talk, Traffic, Osanna, Ange, Atheist, Bo Hanssen and Diablo Swing Orchestra really had more “overall impact, influence and popularity” than National Health, UK, Khan, Solaris, Eloy, Neurosis, Iona, Big Big Train, or Kayo Dot? than Tool, Miles Davis, Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, Klaus Schulze or Peter Hammill? than IQ, Iron Maiden, Devin Townsend, or Haken? Really?!! I mean REALLY??!!!!!!
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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BrufordFreak
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Joined: January 25 2008
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 11:37 |
Maybe this should be a round robin tournament with four groups competing for spots in the Final Four (or final eight)--like they do in the tennis year-end championships? That way we can really draw this sucker out!
BTW: I'm glad you went to the 64 "team" format instead of the 32.
Edited by BrufordFreak - November 27 2014 at 12:10
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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micky
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 07:10 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 07:03 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
micky wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Magma v. Hawkwind - this sucks ass, not a good match up for Hawkwind BIG TIME SUCK ASSAGE.. I cried out loud when the dice gods allowed this matchup in the 1st round. Think I'll go Hawkwind though not sure
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I won't know how I'll vote until I step into the voting booth on that one. Leaning Hawkwind, but then I start thinking about Stella and the other Vander.. forgot his name and start to tip back to Magma. I might go scanners on that one. and that whole Rome bracket is full of tough choices btw. No a single 'no doubter' vote for me.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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twalsh
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Joined: August 26 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: November 27 2014 at 00:52 |
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Wow, I know less than half of these. Gonna have to take some serious headphones time.
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More heavy prog, please!
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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Posted: November 26 2014 at 22:22 |
micky wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Yes v. Death - this is too funny. yeah. I LOL'd when that happened.
Soft Machine v. Zappa/M.O.I - tough call for me Zappa all the way!!  Softs for meUnivers Zero v. Gong - UZ for me but I'm going to lose a favorite. Gong gets my vote, appreciate UZ, love Gong. UZ for me, adore that band, I'm fanatical
Return to Forever v. Radiohead - urgh I hope Radiohead can survive this. I hope so as well, but suppose enough of the anti (not prog) factions will vote against on principal. Tough call and the Fusions Not Prog crowd may have an impact, I'll vote Radiohead
Camel v. Diablo Swing Orchestra - talk about stylistic differences yeah almost to Yes-Death levels of differences. Easy vote there I like Camel a lot but will probably go DSOPink Floyd v. Mike Oldfield - damn what did Oldfield do to deserve this fate? Someone was going to be doomed I suppose to draw Floyd. I think I'll go Oldfield even though Floyd were my favorite band for 2 decades
Atheist v. Cynic - wow yeah. This was the other one (along with Camel's location in the bracket) that was tempted to ignore the shear randomness of, but decided again not to mess with the fate of the D&D dice, besides it will at least ensure more PM groups than DT and Opeth are assured to move on to the second round. I know nothing of the groups. I am going to sample two clips, the more interesting one IMO will get my vote.
King Crimson v. Can - nooooooo, CAN can't get flattened first round!! Upset special perhaps? They will have my vote at the very least. Crimson all day for me though I love CAN, I've got 27 KC albums, its a compulsion
Sigur Ros v. Henry Cow - two other personal favorites butting heads. HC all the way! Cow for me
Magma v. Hawkwind - this sucks ass, not a good match up for Hawkwind BIG TIME SUCK ASSAGE.. I cried out loud when the dice gods allowed this matchup in the 1st round. Think I'll go Hawkwind though not sure
Dream Theater v. Caravan - will all the fanboys bludgeon Canterbury's finest? or will the ghosts of the old Symphonic team run roughshod over the DT fanboys and the group as they did years ago.... Caravan all day, hate DT
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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