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Topic ClosedShould marijuana be legalized?
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Poll Question: Should marijuana be legalized?
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105 [80.77%]
25 [19.23%]
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:28
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 

Jesus Iván, don't change the subject. Where the hell dicrimination was legal? USA? That's one of the most pollitically backward nation in the western world. In Brazil discrimination has been a crime punishable by improsonment for over 100 years, as I think it has been in most of Latin America.

Many places in the world, not only USA...Remember South Africa.

And Latin America being free from discrimination is a lie, until a few years ago Jews weren't accepted in some clubs, 

Even today, in Perú some sites can deny the entrance to expensive locals based in their clothes (and even when they don't say it, race). In some places they post a sign saying:

EL LOCAL SE RESERVA EL DERECHO DE ADMISIÓN
(The local can limit the admission without any explanation)

And that's enough, I seen this in Argentina and if I'm not wrong in Chile...So how is discrimination illegal if with a sign you can reject the entrance of any person without an explanation?

BTW: I read claims from Brazilian models of racism and read this http://www.brazzil.com/p16oct96.htm

Iván
            
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:21
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

That's such a terrible way to live your life.

So obeying the law and my moral is a terrible way of living?

Wow.

Iván

How come the 'or' changed to an 'and'?

You said you won't do anything which is illegal or immoral. Using the former as a guideline for your life is terrible and decidedly immoral. 

There was a time in this country when it was illegal to not return an escaped slave over to his master. But by all means put your personal convictions up to popular vote.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:20
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

oh lol there was a time an all those drugs were legal.

Oops.

Also, I apologize Ivan I forgot that everyone obeys the law, like yourself.
Remember when the US made alcohol illegal? That went stunningly well.


Surprisingly, the USA was actually enforcing a comunist ideal by making alcohol and other drugs illegal.

And they call Obama a marxist. OH MERRICA, U SO CRAZY.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:19
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

oh lol there was a time an all those drugs were legal.

Oops.

Also, I apologize Ivan I forgot that everyone obeys the law, like yourself.
Remember when the US made alcohol illegal? That went stunningly well.

Yah. And then cocaine was made illegal in part because it was believed that blacks under the influence of cocaine were impervious to bullets and became filled with the urge to rape white women.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:18
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

That's such a terrible way to live your life.

So obeying the law and my moral is a terrible way of living?

Wow.

Iván
            
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:18
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 

Iván, that is a long and complicated contemporary social issue man. Not untill some decades ago the consent age in many western countries was around 10 years of age for women and in most countries in Europe the age of consent is still around that. Again, due to American false morality we are being enforced to create false walls and crimes out of f**king there was nothing to be criminalized against, at least culturally. 

Less decades ago discrimination was legal, that doesn't make it good

But a 10 years old girl or boy isn't prepared to give a valid consent. But if any country decides that 10 years is legal, well, in that case and in that country having relations with a 10 years  old child is not pedophilia.

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

  If you mean people that have sexual atraction by children, then the question is much deeper than a yes or no question.

Atraction is not a crime, as long as they don't touch a child.

Iván


Jesus Iván, don't change the subject. Where the hell dicrimination was legal? USA? That's one of the most pollitically backward nation in the western world. In Brazil discrimination has been a crime punishable by improsonment for over 100 years, as I think it has been in most of Latin America.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:17
oh lol there was a time an all those drugs were legal.

Oops.

Also, I apologize Ivan I forgot that everyone obeys the law, like yourself.
Remember when the US made alcohol illegal? That went stunningly well.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:15
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

al, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.


Criminalizing the supply side is even less effective. It removes suppliers from the market, which causes a reduction in supply, leading to a spike in prices, leading to higher profit to dealers. Higher profit for dealers attracts more suppliers to the market.

Then open the doors to anything, morphine, heroine, etc, at the end it's almost impossible to stop all of them.

Iván

What? How's that a response to what I said?

But yes I support legalization of all those things. Gasp!

The country didn't exactly collapse last time they were legal.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:15
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Ivan, please learn how to do the quotes man.

You never answered me, do you make any personal choices or do you base your actions on whether or not it's legal?

Because that is certainly what it sounds like.



I will avoid doing something illegal or inmoral, even if I like it..........As simple as that.

I love music, I wish it was for free because I can't buy as many albums as I want to.....But downloading without paying is illegal, so I don't do it.

If it was legal and artists had another way of being paid, I would do it.

Iván


OK then.
Well, what else can I say? I am impressed. Not saying I agree, but I am impressed. Your dedication to the law/the system is really...something.
Especially how you talk about elected officials, like it's so easy. If you don't like it just vote em out and put someone new in!
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:14
That's such a terrible way to live your life.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:14
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

al, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.


Criminalizing the supply side is even less effective. It removes suppliers from the market, which causes a reduction in supply, leading to a spike in prices, leading to higher profit to dealers. Higher profit for dealers attracts more suppliers to the market.

Then open the doors to anything, morphine, heroine, etc, at the end it's almost impossible to stop all of them.

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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:13
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Ivan, please learn how to do the quotes man.

You never answered me, do you make any personal choices or do you base your actions on whether or not it's legal?

Because that is certainly what it sounds like.



I will avoid doing something illegal or inmoral, even if I like it..........As simple as that.

I love music, I wish it was for free because I can't buy as many albums as I want to.....But downloading without paying is illegal, so I don't do it.

If it was legal and artists had another way of being paid, I would do it.

Iván
            
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:09
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Just in case CCVP...I don't say the consumer should be criminalize, I agree with you there.

The person who sells it and make profit should.

Iván


Those are mostly from the rulling class, so I don't think that actually worked.

If I remember correctly, a research was made some time ago with the US congressmen and the members of the UK Chamber of Commons and many of those guys had cloathings with as much coke as an user's cloathing would have. Bottomline is, I don't think they would actually make laws that will cause in their arrest.

if it was legal, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.

Criminalizing the supply side is even less effective. It removes suppliers from the market, which causes a reduction in supply, leading to a spike in prices, leading to higher profit to dealers. Higher profit for dealers attracts more suppliers to the market.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:09
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

 

Iván, that is a long and complicated contemporary social issue man. Not untill some decades ago the consent age in many western countries was around 10 years of age for women and in most countries in Europe the age of consent is still around that. Again, due to American false morality we are being enforced to create false walls and crimes out of f**king there was nothing to be criminalized against, at least culturally. 

Less decades ago discrimination was legal, that doesn't make it good

But a 10 years old girl or boy isn't prepared to give a valid consent. But if any country decides that 10 years is legal, well, in that case and in that country having relations with a 10 years  old child is not pedophilia.

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

  If you mean people that have sexual atraction by children, then the question is much deeper than a yes or no question.

Atraction is not a crime, as long as they don't touch a child.

Iván
            
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:07
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

 

Could you please explain to me how there is a black market when there's no prohibition? With prohibition the drugs are sold to minors. 

When a drug is made legal the amount a person can buy is limited, the place where you can sell it is also limited, so the drug dealers will continue selling the amount you want and where you want, is simple.

You are ignoring my answers

Not really. Since I asked about 25 questions and you semi-answered one.

If this is true where is the black market for cigarettes and alcohol? Seems to like not exist? Or at least be several orders of magnitude smaller.

In either case, what you're arguing then is that the black market is indifferent to a prohibition or not (clearly false), so why again in the prohibition necessary?

Originally posted by Ivan Ivan wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:


I have to accept what a mugger decides too. That's no justification for anything. 



If you live in a society you have to accept their rules even if you don't like them, and Congressmen are elected by the people.

The mugger example is absurd,

Iván

Why? That's an absurd response. The analogy perfectly represents my relationship to Congress.


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - January 16 2011 at 22:08
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:06
Ivan, please learn how to do the quotes man.

You never answered me, do you make any personal choices or do you base your actions on whether or not it's legal?

Because that is certainly what it sounds like.


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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:06
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Just in case CCVP...I don't say the consumer should be criminalize, I agree with you there.

The person who sells it and make profit should.

Iván


Those are mostly from the rulling class, so I don't think that actually worked.

If I remember correctly, a research was made some time ago with the US congressmen and the members of the UK Chamber of Commons and many of those guys had cloathings with as much coke as an user's cloathing would have. Bottomline is, I don't think they would actually make laws that will cause in their arrest.

if it was legal, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:04
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

 

Could you please explain to me how there is a black market when there's no prohibition? With prohibition the drugs are sold to minors. 

When a drug is made legal the amount a person can buy is limited, the place where you can sell it is also limited, so the drug dealers will continue selling the amount you want and where you want, is simple.

You are ignoring my answers



Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I didn't elect my Congressmen. They don't listen to the public. They don't listen to the law.

If you live in a society you have to accept their rules even if you don't like them, and Congressmen are elected by the people.

The mugger example is absurd,

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 16 2011 at 22:16
            
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:57
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:



What? What are you talking about? Those aren't answers. I don't even know what they mean. Without prohibition there is no black market. Could you attempt to explain. Maybe answer my questions.

Of course there is, they will sell it cheaper, in any amount you want , to minors without restrictions and with less risks,  and if the business goes weak, they will  start selling harder drugs in a higher amount.

Could you please explain to me how there is a black market when there's no prohibition? With prohibition the drugs are sold to minors. 

You ignored 90% of my questions.
Originally posted by Ivan Ivan wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

How would it be easier for minors to get it? The ease of a minor acquiring pot right now is the same as acquiring a pack of cigarettes. Also, that's absurd. Any cost is good? Resources are limited. If it requires you to divert all resources from law enforcement into drug enforcement to protect minors, you would be allowing murders a free ride. So there is a limit. 

They have to pay much more and take the risk of buying an illegal product.

Once again just ignoring points.

What you just described is exactly the same as a taxed product with an age restriction (not that I support either of those). So again how would it be easier?

Originally posted by Ivan Ivan wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I didn't elect my Congressmen. They don't listen to the public. They don't listen to the law.

Even if you didn't voted, you have to accept what they decide, if you don't like them, vote for another alternative.

Iván

I have to accept what a mugger decides too. That's no justification for anything. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:57
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

A fun thread to read, love the ones who deny using it but know so much about it


You are aware the site does not allow promotion of illegal drug use, right? And admitting you do it is basically tacit promotion.

No matter the difference, I do smoke marijuana occasionally. I don't make a big deal about it. No one's winning cool points for it anymore because it's practically normal to smoke pot. Nothing to see here let's get on with our lives.


Yeah, when we step away from fantasy debate world it really isn't a thing.

God I've met 40 year old christian conservatives with kids that have said it should be legalized. And I'm 100% serious about that.
No one cares.

Politicians are getting in the way of it really.


Edited by JJLehto - January 16 2011 at 21:57
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