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Topic ClosedAbundance of one-man "bands" in modern prog

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 21:48
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

With one man recordings, I usually notice which instruments the artist specializes in, and which he is not as competent playing.  As a bass player, it irritates me when a great prog piece is brought down by a mundane bass line (often I hear keyboardists of guitarists lay down a bass track that finds a home at the root and stays there). 
 

I think there are two sides to this.  Prog sometimes becomes more about the parts than the whole and while this may excite musicians, it doesn't always lead to great music.  Sometimes, the music as a whole is better with a mundane bass line or simple groove or modest guitar.  It takes restraint to overcome the desire to dazzle or overplay a part.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 12:27
This is a very interesting matter! Thanks to post about that!

Well, I agree with you when you talk about the good points of a whole band playing/composing. The chemistry between group members is the cause of many of the greatests ideas we use to listening to. But it is a fact that this "one-band-man-thing" is the future, as you said, thanks to the technological advancements we have availiable nowadays. 

- It is a good thing?

I think, generally, it is a good thing indeed. Let's remember bands like Jethro Tull for example, in which there's one guy who is the "soul" of the whole thing. Or Jon Anderson, Paul McCartney, among others, who recorded entire albums by themselves. Besides, the tradicional band shape will never desappear at all! I don't think it is an exclusion situation, where the tradicional way will be displaced... We have started a new era, when two types of work are possible. The gain is clear: more productions, more music, more prog!!! 

Well, that's my oppinion!
Keep on proggin'!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 12:06
Originally posted by zerothehero76 zerothehero76 wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

On a side note, it's curious that many modern one-man projects release their music with a "band name".

uhm, interesting point of view. to me, having an "alias" is a means to overcome my shyness and separate my musical life with my "professional" one. Now I use zerothehero as a universal nickname for every artistic expression. (well, zero the hero was the protagonist in gong's trilogy: never forget it!)

I see time is a common issue for every one man band. One year ago I found a really good drummer who recorded a couple of tracks for a "home" project but he disappeared after recording a couple of songs... lack of time! Cry
I want to know why some bands go by a list of the musicians names (Emerson Lake & Palmer, Anderson Bruford Wakemen Dewey Cheetam & Howe...).

Edited by Evolver - December 26 2012 at 12:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 11:23
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

On a side note, it's curious that many modern one-man projects release their music with a "band name".

uhm, interesting point of view. to me, having an "alias" is a means to overcome my shyness and separate my musical life with my "professional" one. Now I use zerothehero as a universal nickname for every artistic expression. (well, zero the hero was the protagonist in gong's trilogy: never forget it!)

I see time is a common issue for every one man band. One year ago I found a really good drummer who recorded a couple of tracks for a "home" project but he disappeared after recording a couple of songs... lack of time! Cry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 09:25
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

That's more where I intended the discussion to gravitate to. I agree with the reflections pointed: for a musician wanting to do Prog nowadays it is probably difficult to find other band members in his geographical region who also want to do Prog, who want to do the same kind of Prog, who are skillful enough for what he wants to do, who get along with each other, who are committed enough to maintain a stable band etc.
...
 
I'm starting to agree with you that it would be much more difficult to be progressive as an individual, than a group ... since , if there is one thing that we can point to in those original groups, it was ... the individuality and definition of the work by EACH person ... the connection of which was quite helpful to the whole of the group ... and that this mechanic, would likely be missing, if it was a one man band ...
 
But then, you come across a couple of these folks ... Peter Hammill, and I think he is more progressive, and original in his solo albums, than he is with VdGG! ... or one of the better ones ... you do know that Porcupine Tree started out of tapes from the garage by Steven Wilson, right? So, saying that one man can not do it, is probably not the right focus for the whole thing ... it's almost like saying that Stravinsky could not have written the stuff he did, like he did ... and the minute you say that, someone shows up with his head in the clouds and writes something insane that you wonder how and why, one person can see all that ... and instruments going everywhere!
 
This is a problem for "progressive music" since the personalities are "involved" in its definition, it tends to make the definition of the music tougher ... as a composed medium as has been the history ... by one person, instead of more than one. And that would mean that the history of music has to make room for "bands" ... which for all we know some of the stuff in the backlog of music history probably was written by more than one person!
 
So, it can be progressive with a band, but not as an individual?
 
Not sure about that at all, and in fact, I doubt it, based on music history alone. The problem is only as tough as the individual person can define his work ... and nowadays with the computer, the ability of playing different instruments will be less of an issue ... since you can do something and stretch it differently on the computer, that most folks would not think about ... in this sense, the life of the "composer" is about to enter ... a most fruitful ear ... EVER!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 05:23
Originally posted by Sumdeus Sumdeus wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

On a side note, it's curious that many modern one-man projects release their music with a "band name"....

it's like they want to be considered as a "band" even if they are a one-man project. Funny?


well can't speak for everyone but in my cause it's doesn't really have anything to do with trying to be a "band", i don't think being a "band" automatically makes you more credible than a one man project, I just don't want to release anything under just my normal name because I'm not all that fond of my normal name and Sumdeus is a cool kind of pseudonym I came up with, as well as now becoming a life philosophy to some extent.
I'm tempted to ask Gerard why he goes by the name Gerinski Wink
 
Like Sumdeus, I'm not fond of my given name - I never chose that name and I am not overly fond of it, I use it IRL because I hate nicknames (those are also given not chosen) - if someone (other than my wife) calls me by a nickname I will ignore them - even if they indulge in the annoying habit of adding superfluous vowels to the end of my name. I use my given name here because I do not want to be anonymous on this forum and I will call people by their real name rather than their screen name most of the time. Even though I have an uncommon given name and surname combination, social network sites such as Facebook have shown that there are at least 4 other people in the world with the same name as me - releasing albums under that name is not unique enough.
 
I regard my band name as being part of the creative process, just as choosing an album title or track title is.
 
Whatever reasons we choose to use a bandname rather than release albums under our given names it doesn't mean we are trying to be a band. Richard Starkey never recorded under his given name even as a band member, Maurice Mickewhite never made a film under his given name, David Robert Jones (of David Jones and the Lower Third) changed his name when he went solo, Toyah the band is a different recording entity to Toyah Wilcox the solo artist  - taking a stagename is common in the entertainment industry.
 
 
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 13:53
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

On a side note, it's curious that many modern one-man projects release their music with a "band name"....

it's like they want to be considered as a "band" even if they are a one-man project. Funny?


well can't speak for everyone but in my cause it's doesn't really have anything to do with trying to be a "band", i don't think being a "band" automatically makes you more credible than a one man project, I just don't want to release anything under just my normal name because I'm not all that fond of my normal name and Sumdeus is a cool kind of pseudonym I came up with, as well as now becoming a life philosophy to some extent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 09:55
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:


Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

 
With one man recordings, I usually notice which instruments the artist specializes in, and which he is not as competent playing.  As a bass player, it irritates me when a great prog piece is brought down by a mundane bass line (often I hear keyboardists of guitarists lay down a bass track that finds a home at the root and stays there). 

 

I'll give you that, as a fellow bassist it's the instrument I listen out to first and foremost and if it's playing is sub-par then it really will hurt my level of enjoyment from the album. One thing I've noticed with prog though, is that it can't be underestimated just how many talented multi-instrumentalists are out there,  you may not be able to call them experts on any one instrument but they can get by quite well on guitar, bass or keys. The exception here does seem to be drums though, but thankfully most one bands that I can think of tend to use a guest drummer, which I guess comes down to the fact that electronic drums are not at all popular with the prog crowd.

This is a pitfall to be sure, but it's a pitfall that can be avoided. The challenge itself is going to make people better all around. I'm learning quite a bit about what's involved on the drum side now. I'm also learning from Jade Warrior just how much you can do without a formal drummer behind a drum kit (of course Jon Field always handled percussion). My version of a base is a guitar with an octave divider with the mix turned so that you hear just base no guitar. I play this way frequently enough to where I consider myself a "base" player. Personally, I think musicians will become more comprehensive in their talents and become better problem-solvers. I think I'm a better guitarist too, because I attempt to use the instrument in a more comprehensive way.

Adrian Belew - Desire Caught by the Tail Is better for not having been a band effort, I say.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 09:17
Originally posted by Neelus Neelus wrote:


If there is really an increase in the amount of one man projects in prog.  I am feeling that a part of the reason might be that prog musos are having a hard time putting prog bands together.  I am not sure about the USA, but in places where I lived, it surely would not be that easy to put a good outfit together that played purely prog.  Prog metal maybe if you are lucky.  But prog rock.  Not easy.  So it can make sense that more and more prog fans that decided to pick up instruments might decide to start recording alone.



Yeah, I'm in Oklahoma for cripe's sake. I have a day job. My hair is starting to get gray. I don't have the time to collaborate with anyone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 08:07
On a side note, it's curious that many modern one-man projects release their music with a "band name".
In the past one-man projects mostly released the material on their own name: Mike Oldfield, Jean Michel Jarre...
Now we see "bands" like:
Methexis (Nikitas Kissonas)
Soniq Theater (Alfred Mueller)
Zerothehero (Carlo Barreca)
Backyards (Marc Devidal)
The Quiet Earth Orchestra (John Ludi)
Apogee (Arne Schafer)
...

it's like they want to be considered as a "band" even if they are a one-man project. Funny?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 04:17
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Otherwise it's going to get harder and harder for the traditional notion of prog ROCK to reach the heights of before.
That was my point in a nutshell.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 04:13
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

 
There's no question that many a one-man can produce excellent albums, but when I think about some of the best Prog albums in history, I have a hard time imagining that they could have been the product of a one-man release: the best albums by Genesis, Rush, ELP, Yes, Mahavishnu, GG, Camel, Banco, PFM, DT...


Not without guest musicians, no...it would be very difficult.  That is also why we are seeing a move towards more electronic elements, which is a good way to work around the lack of musicians to play conventional instruments.   Otherwise it's going to get harder and harder for the traditional notion of prog ROCK to reach the heights of before.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 03:36
That's more where I intended the discussion to gravitate to. I agree with the reflections pointed: for a musician wanting to do Prog nowadays it is probably difficult to find other band members in his geographical region who also want to do Prog, who want to do the same kind of Prog, who are skillful enough for what he wants to do, who get along with each other, who are committed enough to maintain a stable band etc.
The point about more freedom from contracts currently is also a valid one.

All these factors are reasonable and understandable. Will they result in an increasing trend for musicians to release as one-man and a decline in full bands? I hope not.

Is a one-man with one guest a "one-man"? I would say so unless the guest contribution is very important.
And one man with two guests? Well I guess it depends on the share of contribution of the two guests.
I admit that the line between one-man and band is blurry so lets keep it about real one-man projects, maybe with just one or two guests who have a limited contribution.

There's no question that many a one-man can produce excellent albums, but when I think about some of the best Prog albums in history, I have a hard time imagining that they could have been the product of a one-man release: the best albums by Genesis, Rush, ELP, Yes, Mahavishnu, GG, Camel, Banco, PFM, DT...



Edited by Gerinski - December 25 2012 at 03:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 03:09
that is also a good point, the reason i started my one man project was because finding apt musicians for a band seemed impossible. I have recently found out though that a close friend of mind used to play piano a lot and owns a hammond so things are looking brighter hehe
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 03:03
If there is really an increase in the amount of one man projects in prog.  I am feeling that a part of the reason might be that prog musos are having a hard time putting prog bands together.  I am not sure about the USA, but in places where I lived, it surely would not be that easy to put a good outfit together that played purely prog.  Prog metal maybe if you are lucky.  But prog rock.  Not easy.  So it can make sense that more and more prog fans that decided to pick up instruments might decide to start recording alone.

Edited by Neelus - December 25 2012 at 03:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 02:44
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

 
With one man recordings, I usually notice which instruments the artist specializes in, and which he is not as competent playing.  As a bass player, it irritates me when a great prog piece is brought down by a mundane bass line (often I hear keyboardists of guitarists lay down a bass track that finds a home at the root and stays there). 
 

I'll give you that, as a fellow bassist it's the instrument I listen out to first and foremost and if it's playing is sub-par then it really will hurt my level of enjoyment from the album. One thing I've noticed with prog though, is that it can't be underestimated just how many talented multi-instrumentalists are out there,  you may not be able to call them experts on any one instrument but they can get by quite well on guitar, bass or keys. The exception here does seem to be drums though, but thankfully most one bands that I can think of tend to use a guest drummer, which I guess comes down to the fact that electronic drums are not at all popular with the prog crowd.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 02:28
^^^ I don't know very much about modern one man bands and I would hazard a guess that they may be simply facing a problem of constraints.   My aforementioned friend has found it difficult to keep the flock together for any length of time and has been the only constant in his band since he first put it together just two years back.   Maybe this is a side effect of the emerging independence of artists, operating in a cottage industry-like model without label interference.   In the 60s and the 70s, bands would have had contracts and therefore some foreseeable income and incentive to stay together.   A fair few artists from that time have said later in interviews that commercial success was one of their most important goals.   Which artist making prog rock today realistically has commercial success as a goal?   We can see that many of the successful bands went through a lot of churning that way BEFORE they broke through.    Instead of trying to somehow grit it out with a band, maybe musicians simply prefer to put it together by themselves and try to find some audience. 

If, however, the said one man army actually was a very skilled multi instrumentalist, I don't think the lack of external influences on his work would pose a great impediment to him.  I come back to Wonder....of the 9 tracks on Innervisions, no less than 3 are credited entirely to him and at least two of them - Living for the city and Higher ground - are among his evergreen favourites.    The only reason we may not find such examples in prog of that time could be that the live act, specifically involving a band rather than guest musicians (esp ELP), was more important to their success than it was for Wonder, who enjoyed a lot more support in the radio and depended much more on album sales. 


Edited by rogerthat - December 25 2012 at 02:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 02:15
JT, Hackett or Radiohead are not one-man bands.
The discussion got twisted towards the compositional aspect as if I was just saying that good compositions can only arise from collaborative effort, which was not the intended meaning. My fault because I did indeed made a comment in that direction but that was not the whole point.

The title should have made clear that I wanted to raise discussion about the growing trend for one-man albums. I never had a problem with bands led by a single composer, these are not part of the discussion.

Even in bands led by a composer what we hear is still a band, and we can never know how tightly the instrumentalists played according to a score written by the composer or how much they introduced their own lines or details. At the very least even if they followed tightly a score they played it with their own style and flavour and this produces a wider richness in the overall sound than if all the instruments are played by one-man (let alone the fact that in many cases each individual instrumentalist may be more skilled in his particular instrument).

Freddie Mercury might be the composer of Killer Queen or Death On Two Legs but they would not sound as they did without May, Taylor and Deacon. No, these or JT or Hackett are for me band products, not one-man products!

There are two sides to the discussion one-man vs band, the composition and the interpretation. In my opinion interpretation by other band members is enough to introduce that additional richness I was referring to.

Sorry if I created confusion but my point was just about one-man projects.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2012 at 23:19
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

I believe you are mistaking a musician/songwriter leading a band with a single musician playing all the instruments on his album.

Check out the discussion between Dean and Gerinski on the first page of this thread.  It suggests that Gerinski extends his notion of a one man band to that of a one man composer and believes that even a one man composer is hampered in terms of creativity compared to a band with a few composers.   I think that is highly debatable and can only be observed on a case-by-case basis.   It is highly unlikely that the sum total of the output of a democratic, mediocre band would match the creativity of a genius.  

Further, as I mentioned in the second para of my previous post, you cannot compare music with traditional rock/blues instruments with electronic music.  A one man band concept is not at all unusual in electronic music, so it's not hard and fast that something would necessarily always be lost in a one man band set up, unless you start out with the (possibly biased) notion that no electronic or electronic-influenced music can be as inspired as out and out rock music.


Edited by rogerthat - December 24 2012 at 23:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2012 at 23:14
I believe you are mistaking a musician/songwriter leading a band with a single musician playing all the instruments on his album.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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