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Joined: March 19 2008
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Topic: Alternative Reality 70's Prog History Posted: August 17 2013 at 12:30
HolyMoly wrote:
If Spirit had accepted the invitation to play at Woodstock, their popularity would have been given a timely boost, and the 1970 release of Twelve Dreams of Doctor Sardonicus would have become the new standard in mainstream progressive rock, it would have become one of the longest running chart entries in rock history, and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon would merely have been praised as a continuation and refinement of the studio experimentation that Spirit began.
And Led Zep wouldn't have been able to rip off Taurus so easily.
Joined: September 22 2005
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Points: 1455
Posted: August 14 2013 at 22:04
RedNightmareKing wrote:
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
RedNightmareKing wrote:
I've always wondered what would happen if 1969 KC stayed together...
I'm glad they didn't, we would never have had the wonderfully eclectic music from many different lineups over the years, although it would have been interesting to hear what they would have come up with. I find myself not really very excited about ITCotCK these days, but given the incredible musicians those guys were, I'm sure they would have evolved into something even better. Still, I'm happy we got all the other lineups instead.
One thing I really would have liked to hear is Michael Giles on more records, to my knowledge he maybe appeared on one more album besides ITCotCK but he was such an incredible drummer with such a small output.
I'm really surprised Giles isn't mentioned much around here with his skills, especially on Lizard and ITCotCK...
I know this skews us 'off topic' a bit, but I so agree. Giles is the one of the best, most under-rated drummers in the history of jazz & rock, let alone prog...
Joined: March 29 2013
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Posted: August 09 2013 at 16:18
tamijo wrote:
To my understanding this tread was ment as a place to be joking and stuff.
Look like you took my posts way too seriusly
If you read fripp's diary (i do, im a big fan), Fripp often makes stadements like :
"as a professionel touring musician...................." , often in relation to the fact, that he finds it hard to work as an artist, and at the same time run his "shop". I was just playing a game, on the idear that fripp got involved with Phil, and together they made POP music, Phil style, to give people what they want.
They did not, its a fantacy, and seems no one found it to be the least little bit fun.
Sorry about that...I must admit I had absolutely no idea you were joking. The thread was meant to be fun but it seemed to become a humourless Fripp-bash with no smilies to be found and my post was in response to that. I totally missed your inference that Fripp had joined with Phil to provide pop to the masses. If I had seen that, I would have been laughing too hard to post that reply To take your idea one step further, the thought of RF partnering up with Phil and doing the guitar work on "A Groovy Kind of Love" is enough to send me into fits of cataplexy
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Posted: August 09 2013 at 09:55
The.Crimson.King wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Fripp explains the change in KC style to the BBC reporter
As a proffesional touring musician, you are working with the listner, and after years of denying what the listner wants, we have now come to a bridge of knowlage, they wants short easy basic R&B, thats what we are supplying.
Since when has Fripp ever cared about the audience.
Never, but it seems he sometimes cares about the money.
So what exactly was Fripp supposed to have done differently to show he "cared" about his audience and not "the money"?
Clearly, being intimately involved in the creation of the very genre that brings us together on PA, running one of the most successful world renowned prog bands for 34 years, being the primary driving force between the creation of 13 Crimso studio and 25 live albums, spending over 3 decades of his life living out of suitcases in Holiday Inn's to bring music to audiences across the world, and providing millions with unique musical experiences of a consistently high quality from 1969 to 2003 isn't enough.
Did Fripp make money? I sure hope so (though I suspect EG records made more from King Crimson than he ever did). Did Fripp care about money? Is there anyone here who doesn't need to eat or put a roof over their families heads?
He eventually got fed up with being ripped off and he states that in many CD liner notes. He knew he was ( and is ) some form of demi-God because of his intellect, not only because of his outre playing. I remember doing many " I'm not worthies " at Crimson concerts. He's sort of the Elvis of progrock.
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: August 09 2013 at 06:14
What if the John Evan band stayed together in 1967. This was pretty much the 1972-75 Tull lineup with Anderson, Evan, Barlow and Hammond. Barre didn't come into the picture until 1969
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
I always wondered what would have happened in prog history if the following alternative reality story lines had occurred.
1) Bill Bruford stayed with Yes and recorded Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer.
2) When Peter Gabriel left Genesis, Steve Hackett went with him and they formed a new band together.
3) Syd Barrett was able to pull himself together and Pink Floyd continued as a 5 piece with both Syd and David Gilmour.
Pick one and let your imagination run wild
1) TFTO is a single album, Wakeman stays with the band. Alan White joins King Crimson, who then stay together throughout the 70s, becoming more successful commercially than any other Prog band.
2) Gabriel & Hackett form a pop trio with Patrick Moraz (because Wakeman stays with Yes) and have more success than the 80s Genesis we know and 'love' - those guys stick with the prog but fail and separate into three solo careers.
3) Syd stays = no themes of madness and loss = no Dark Side Of The Moon = no mega success = experimental music & underground cult status forever.
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Posted: August 09 2013 at 04:44
The.Crimson.King wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Fripp explains the change in KC style to the BBC reporter
As a proffesional touring musician, you are working with the listner, and after years of denying what the listner wants, we have now come to a bridge of knowlage, they wants short easy basic R&B, thats what we are supplying.
Since when has Fripp ever cared about the audience.
Never, but it seems he sometimes cares about the money.
So what exactly was Fripp supposed to have done differently to show he "cared" about his audience and not "the money"?
Clearly, being intimately involved in the creation of the very genre that brings us together on PA, running one of the most successful world renowned prog bands for 34 years, being the primary driving force between the creation of 13 Crimso studio and 25 live albums, spending over 3 decades of his life living out of suitcases in Holiday Inn's to bring music to audiences across the world, and providing millions with unique musical experiences of a consistently high quality from 1969 to 2003 isn't enough.
Did Fripp make money? I sure hope so (though I suspect EG records made more from King Crimson than he ever did). Did Fripp care about money? Is there anyone here who doesn't need to eat or put a roof over their families heads?
To my understanding this tread was ment as a place to be joking and stuff.
Look like you took my posts way too seriusly
If you read fripp's diary (i do, im a big fan), Fripp often makes stadements like :
"as a professionel touring musician...................." , often in relation to the fact, that he finds it hard to work as an artist, and at the same time run his "shop". I was just playing a game, on the idear that fripp got involved with Phil, and together they made POP music, Phil style, to give people what they want.
They did not, its a fantacy, and seems no one found it to be the least little bit fun.
Edited by tamijo - August 09 2013 at 04:57
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Posted: August 09 2013 at 04:23
Here's a scenario I've often pondered: in the mid-1970s, around 1974-1976ish, you saw a brace of major prog bands either disband entirely (King Crimson) or go on a hiatus (ELP, Yes, Moody Blues). What would have happened if those bands had stayed active in that time frame? Would the fading of prog's commercial fortunes been delayed, or would the backlash have come earlier?
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Posted: August 07 2013 at 13:12
tamijo wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Fripp explains the change in KC style to the BBC reporter
As a proffesional touring musician, you are working with the listner, and after years of denying what the listner wants, we have now come to a bridge of knowlage, they wants short easy basic R&B, thats what we are supplying.
Since when has Fripp ever cared about the audience.
Never, but it seems he sometimes cares about the money.
So what exactly was Fripp supposed to have done differently to show he "cared" about his audience and not "the money"?
Clearly, being intimately involved in the creation of the very genre that brings us together on PA, running one of the most successful world renowned prog bands for 34 years, being the primary driving force between the creation of 13 Crimso studio and 25 live albums, spending over 3 decades of his life living out of suitcases in Holiday Inn's to bring music to audiences across the world, and providing millions with unique musical experiences of a consistently high quality from 1969 to 2003 isn't enough.
Did Fripp make money? I sure hope so (though I suspect EG records made more from King Crimson than he ever did). Did Fripp care about money? Is there anyone here who doesn't need to eat or put a roof over their families heads?
Edited by The.Crimson.King - August 07 2013 at 13:16
Joined: January 24 2010
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Posted: August 07 2013 at 08:44
^^yeah, i agree that such abuse makes for their own mental problems as well as making the underlying mental conditions worse in consequence. And it really is a tragic and sad story. (I have Opel, and actually quite like it)
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Posted: August 07 2013 at 08:39
The.Crimson.King wrote:
presdoug wrote:
^Barrett was schizophrenic, and would have developed that condition whether he took acid or not. LSD does not cause schizophrenia, though it can cause it to erupt in the mind of those predisposed towards it.
Not sure I agree that his schizophrenia would have progressed to the same degree without LSD as I believe it was the catalyst which led to his disintegration. On the other hand, I agree that he was predisposed to instability as the early band history is full of stories of Syd having an increasingly difficult time dealing with the pressures of their success...such as the record company constantly badgering him for the next hit single (as he wrote all their singles and 10 of the 11 songs on the 1st album) or requiring him to appear on "Top of the Pop's" which he strongly opposed and eventually lead to his first infamous public meltdown.
Either way, his descent was a terrible tragedy and listening to his final solo album Opel (a collection of outtakes from his 2 official solo albums) is a painful illustration of his ultimate mental deterioration. Would he have cracked without LSD? Possibly, but I don't think to nearly the same degree.
To make matters worse, most people in music (and others) did not just take 100 LSD trips, it was a mix of trips, alcohol, other types of drugs and cannabis.
At i can say from my personal relations that this coctail will result in various degrees of mental short and long term problems, not to everyone, some are extreemly strong, but to many many people.
Edited by tamijo - August 07 2013 at 08:40
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
Joined: January 06 2009
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Posted: August 07 2013 at 08:26
Vibrationbaby wrote:
tamijo wrote:
Fripp explains the change in KC style to the BBC reporter
As a proffesional touring musician, you are working with the listner, and after years of denying what the listner wants, we have now come to a bridge of knowlage, they wants short easy basic R&B, thats what we are supplying.
Since when has Fripp ever cared about the audience.
Never, but it seems he sometimes cares about the money.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
Joined: March 29 2013
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 23:31
presdoug wrote:
^Barrett was schizophrenic, and would have developed that condition whether he took acid or not. LSD does not cause schizophrenia, though it can cause it to erupt in the mind of those predisposed towards it.
Not sure I agree that his schizophrenia would have progressed to the same degree without LSD as I believe it was the catalyst which led to his disintegration. On the other hand, I agree that he was predisposed to instability as the early band history is full of stories of Syd having an increasingly difficult time dealing with the pressures of their success...such as the record company constantly badgering him for the next hit single (as he wrote all their singles and 10 of the 11 songs on the 1st album) or requiring him to appear on "Top of the Pop's" which he strongly opposed and eventually lead to his first infamous public meltdown.
Either way, his descent was a terrible tragedy and listening to his final solo album Opel (a collection of outtakes from his 2 official solo albums) is a painful illustration of his ultimate mental deterioration. Would he have cracked without LSD? Possibly, but I don't think to nearly the same degree.
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 16:55
^Barrett was schizophrenic, and would have developed that condition whether he took acid or not. LSD does not cause schizophrenia, though it can cause it to erupt in the mind of those predisposed towards it.
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 16:55
Why is there such a big deal about Syd Barrett? He was only really on one Floyd album. I guess he provided them for fodder for albums like DSOTM, WYWH and the Wall. After Waters was out out of the fold the band finally grew up and concentrated on making music not associated with fried out brains on illicit drugs
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 15:18
Dean wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
I don't understand the whole "acid fried-Syd Barrett's mind" excuse/scenario. The smartest man I've ever met worked 35 years for Dow Chemical as their world-wide go-to fix-the-crisis man. He claims to have taken well over 100 acid trips (as well as many other mind-altering substances) in the sixties and seventies and never "fried his brain." Please help me understand Syd's story in more depth and detail. . .
Rather than pick over Syd's life, I suggest you look into Peter Green's life story to see the effect of drug use on a fragile mind.
I'd add that not everyone reacts to the same psychoactive drug in the same way. What can be a mind expanding experience for one could easily be mind poison to the psyche of another...hence why basing a decision on the fact that since whoever has taken whatever "100 times" so what's the big deal is so dangerous. Sadly for music lovers and especially himself, Syd rolled the dice and lost.
I'd highly recommend the book, "Lost in the Woods: Syd Barrett and the Pink Floyd".
I don't understand the whole "acid fried-Syd Barrett's mind" excuse/scenario. The smartest man I've ever met worked 35 years for Dow Chemical as their world-wide go-to fix-the-crisis man. He claims to have taken well over 100 acid trips (as well as many other mind-altering substances) in the sixties and seventies and never "fried his brain." Please help me understand Syd's story in more depth and detail. . .
Rather than pick over Syd's life, I suggest you look into Peter Green's life story to see the effect of drug use on a fragile mind.
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 14:45
BrufordFreak wrote:
I don't understand the whole "acid fried-Syd Barrett's mind" excuse/scenario. The smartest man I've ever met worked 35 years for Dow Chemical as their world-wide go-to fix-the-crisis man. He claims to have taken well over 100 acid trips (as well as many other mind-altering substances) in the sixties and seventies and never "fried his brain." Please help me understand Syd's story in more depth and detail. . .
Rather than pick over Syd's life, I suggest you look into Peter Green's life story to see the effect of drug use on a fragile mind.
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Posted: August 06 2013 at 14:32
I don't understand the whole "acid fried-Syd Barrett's mind" excuse/scenario. The smartest man I've ever met worked 35 years for Dow Chemical as their world-wide go-to fix-the-crisis man. He claims to have taken well over 100 acid trips (as well as many other mind-altering substances) in the sixties and seventies and never "fried his brain." Please help me understand Syd's story in more depth and detail. . .
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Alternative Reality 70's Prog History
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HolyMoly wrote:
