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Joined: January 02 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 71
Posted: March 14 2011 at 21:28
Well,
DT was the band that I knew first, after my initial explorations with Genesis, Floyd, KC and Yes. (Genesis remains my all-time favorite band.) I loved a few of their albums way back when. I still kind of like their sound, if only in small doses. However, about a year ago, I discovered MDK, and I have gradually become absolutely infatuated with Da Zeuhl Wortz Mekanïk. My vote would go to them if this forum would permit me to. Alas, for whatever reason and despite how I used to be able to, this is not the case. I've also made more progheads out of friends of mine with Magma than I have with DT! Also, I too find it very amusing that you can't vote for Magma against DT in a Prog Forum without being a fanatic and a snob. We don't CARE what's more popular, we care about what music we find to be truly superior. I am very surprised but extremely proud to see that in this case, it is Zebehn Straan De Geustaah's "Zeuhl Wortz" that has prevailed.
As Blasquiz used to cry before the soldiers of Zeuhl gave us "Kohntarkosz," HAMATAI!
-Dom
PS: I just had a great time with 5 friends of mine watching the entire "Mythes & Legendes" series yesterday, having purchased them a few weeks back. I think I found my favorite versions of every piece! (And I've heard a bunch.)
...all around, all around, all around, all around...
KA and E-re are great. Will mention that with Emehntehtt-Re you'll probably be familiar
with themes that Vander used in the album ("Hhai" etc.), but I think
it's been done really well (some have dismissed it for not being original
enough). Joyous.
And K.A is largely based on music composed in the 70s but the album had never been realized.
Magma also has various, I think, very good modern compositions that they have not
put to studio album yet ("Felicite Thosz" is a favourite of mine and is reminiscent of Offering, if you know that Vander band):
[/QUOTE]
just got round to the listen
first vid _ excellente
two unreleased `offerring` styled vids ... hmmm ... still i`m out on this period
offering is `loungey` ... nice
i prefer the range and dynamic of the rockprog vander band
having had a chat with `ultima thule` leicester brothers [freeman] i will certainly be getting KA & Em-Re
Joined: June 27 2006
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 152
Posted: November 25 2010 at 14:26
I have not heard Magma yet, but for my part, DT was the best thing that happened in music in the whole 90's.
They were the kiss of life to both metal and prog genres that struggled back then
in an era full of grunge and glam-bands with low level of music comprehension.
I do understand why people hate DT. It is just a matter of taste and aesthetics.
Same happens with Floyd, Yes, Stones or [insert] anyone's haters
.
Also it is logical for other musicians to be envious of someone's :
- enormous, almost inhuman musicianship level
- song-writing quality
- and success all in 1 package.
Whatever this poll might show, DT already do down in history as one of the most influential acts in the history of the both prog and metal genres, whereas Magma is just a retro cult band that many people often will mistake for Volcano's lava or something.
(In future prog music books, equations like " 70's Floyd/Yes + 80's Maiden-Metallica = 90's & 00's DT " will be trivial)
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
Posted: November 25 2010 at 08:47
JS19 wrote:
I think DT sometimes do noodle about a bit to much for my liking, and I understand why the snobs on this site absolutely hate them. HOWEVER, they have created some very coherent music.
Again, why snobs?
Is it a duty of every good musical fan to like Dream Theater?
I believe whoever believes this is the real snob, we can like or hate the band we want
Joined: October 10 2010
Location: Lancaster, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
Posted: November 25 2010 at 03:58
Elderflower Man wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Elderflower Man wrote:
And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.
No, w***ing is technical exhibitionism for the sake of it (which also doesn't really lead the music anywhere). Noodling is found in lots of prog albums, The Wall, TAAB, KC and Genesis in general.
Let me try that again. Noodling is a perfectly fine element to have in music, but the argument is that Dream Theater noodle excessively in lieu of actual content. Is that clearer?
I think DT sometimes do noodle about a bit to much for my liking, and I understand why the snobs on this site absolutely hate them. HOWEVER, they have created some very coherent music.
There is nothing wrong with them except they don't sound like some people think they should
Joined: December 05 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 155
Posted: November 16 2010 at 17:07
rogerthat wrote:
Elderflower Man wrote:
And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.
No, w***ing is technical exhibitionism for the sake of it (which also doesn't really lead the music anywhere). Noodling is found in lots of prog albums, The Wall, TAAB, KC and Genesis in general.
Let me try that again. Noodling is a perfectly fine element to have in music, but the argument is that Dream Theater noodle excessively in lieu of actual content. Is that clearer?
All your hearts now seem so far from me,
It hardly seems to matter now.
Oh boy. More Dream Theater bashing. Anyone would think they set out to offend someone. And here in prog rock land they get slated for playing complex music. And in solos yet.
If they did the Yes / Genesis thing and made pop tunes they would get slagged for that. Still I've only 2 DT albums, what do I know? But what is wrong with Metropolis and Ocatvarium?
I read a PA review of their latest . The review said how awful the Petrucci lyrics were but ... no examples given. Kind of makes the review less than credible, Which is a shame as I don't think it was a bashing review just needed something to back up the opinion.
Anyway my vote goes to Magma as I have no idea whether their lyrics are good or not. But the music I find is quite entrancing and original. And they manage to go on credibly without Klaus Blausquiz. (sp?) Not easy in their version of their line of work.
I don't mind negative comment... but I do like to read thoughtful criticism not just mindless bashing. I mean it's not as if DT are just some dumb (sic) metal band no?
P.S. I don't find metal dumb... I attempt irony... hence the emoticons and other clues.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: November 15 2010 at 19:35
Elderflower Man wrote:
And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.
No, w***ing is technical exhibitionism for the sake of it (which also doesn't really lead the music anywhere). Noodling is found in lots of prog albums, The Wall, TAAB, KC and Genesis in general.
Joined: December 05 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 155
Posted: November 15 2010 at 12:55
rogerthat wrote:
Elderflower Man wrote:
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive.
First off, I am talking about prog, not progressive. Progressive in the context of advancing a music scene is entirely different and can happen in any music scene theoretically. Prog only means the music called prog rock which started in the late 60s and so on and forth.Secondly, I did not say metal cannot be prog but that there are no metal bands that are prog to the same extent as prog rock. The only truly proggy prog metal band I heard are put in eclectic prog, so I wonder if that sort of proves my point. However, it depends on what you call prog rock. If Mostly Autumn's Last Bright Light or Karnataka's Delicate Flame Of Desire and similar complacent pop is prog rock, then yes, DT are prog too, no reservations on my part then. Now why metal is not prog rock is a very long argument and outside the scope of this topic, though if you should so insist, I will humour you. And no, in general, people don't connect noodling and not being progressive. Actually, noodling is a very proggy trait and pervades much of classic prog, the word you are looking for is 'w***ing' or showboating.
Well, if we take "prog" to refer to 70's-era progressive rock, then no, Dream Theater aren't prog. No-one's disputing that Dream Theater aren't a prog rock band, because they aren't. But the general argument that the Dream Theater haters take is that Dream Theater aren't -progressive-.
And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.
All your hearts now seem so far from me,
It hardly seems to matter now.
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