Your opinion of the "new" reviews layout

Where's the difference? Never noticed. I'l lwrite one now and see if there's a difference.

Henry Plainview wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: I have no knowledge of how data can be organised for manipulation on a website  but given that we can sort our own reviews into various formats from our member pages, could a facility exist where a visitor to the album pages might design their own preferred view i.e. to see all collab reviews or all member reviews by way of a drop down thingy ? I am sure that one could store that preference with a cookie so that it applies to all pages you view, and I think that would be a good solution as well, although a little more labor intensive than just changing it for everybody.

ExittheLemming wrote: I have no knowledge of how data can be organised for manipulation on a website  but given that we can sort our own reviews into various formats from our member pages, could a facility exist where a visitor to the album pages might design their own preferred view i.e. to see all collab reviews or all member reviews by way of a drop down thingy ?

I am sure that one could store that preference with a cookie so that it applies to all pages you view, and I think that would be a good solution as well, although a little more labor intensive than just changing it for everybody.

harmonium.ro wrote: I do look at members' reviews if I'm not satisfied with Collab reviews. They come second though (or they don't come at all in the case of albums extensively reviewed by Collabs). Should this be a negative or a positive vote?

I tend to agree with Alex here though I find I don't pay too much attention on the members reviews so much anymore, so the vote would be slightly negative from me...

stonebeard wrote: rpe9p wrote: stonebeard wrote: If you are not a Collaborator, there is no reason in the current system to put effort into a review of an album if not for your own satisfaction. Your opinion otherwise is nearly worthless. Not true at all, I'll give you three 1.  because its fun 2.  to become a collaborator 3.  If you review albums that arent well known, then people will read your review   1. Is covered by "for your own satisfaction." 2. Being a prog reviewer doesn't carry much with it alone. You get recognized for your achivement, which makes you feel good ("for your own satisfaction.") Otherwise, it would make you a collab and have your review more visible, but that only matters now because of the hightened visibility of collab reviews. This problem could be null. 3. Not necessarily true, and even if so, that does not mean they won't think a little bit less of your review because it's not by a collab.   For the record, I was a collab for awhile when we first had genre specialists, but because of the questionable legal nature of streaming MP3s and videos (among other forum business) I decided to resign.

When I look at an album that has only 5 reviews and 4 are non-collaborators, you can bet I am going to read them.  People may think less of your review because you arent a collab, but often with good reason and you can convince them otherwise by writing something good.  I think the admins are just trying to make people's lives easier when searching for good reviews, just like members are trying to make people's lives easier by giving people a good review of the album.  I dont know what the old layout was like, but the current one is fine for me because I would want to look at the collab reviews first anyway

Henry Plainview wrote: floydispink wrote: So, I vote for positive. As I think although having some cons the active system works pretty fine and safe from trolls and nonsense reviews. Previously, the collab reviews were all at the top, so that covers your sifting thing, and we have a pretty good system for getting rid of trolls and incoherent idiots.

But what do you think about true love...???!!!

I think it's pretty terrible, and have often found non-collab reviews to be be better-reading and better-written than collab reviews. Sometimes I prefer them because they ain't so bloody long - lol (talk about the pot calling the kettle black as I commonly write long posts).

I didn't become a collab as a reviewer, yet I would get special treatment of placement and weighting (heck, there are some mostly raters-only whose ratings opinions I I trust more than reviewers simply because my tastes are closer) . It seems a bit unfair to me, and I don't think it benefits the visitors as much as it does the "staff" -- though many collabs have been dead-set against this favouritism from the beginning. And I think such representation can help give some people an over-inflated sense of worth/ ego, to be honest.  Reviews are mostly just opinions anyway....

 I also think it can be discouraging for non-staff (the counter argument that has been given is that it will encourage people to write better and more reviews so that they will be considered for Prog Reviewer status). It's also a carrot to encourage collabs to write more, but I think it's more decent to give everyone a fair showing. 

If someone's spamming, as has been mentioned, that will be usually be caught anyway when it's on the front page and is abusive, but if it weren't it might be harder to catch when it's pushed off to the side.

Incidentally, at progfreak.com there is a trusted reviewer rating (not that we could bring in quite the same system here) and being a collab is supposed to mean trusted anyway... 

Late edit (had a shower):  The other funny thing is that when you look on the album page it has the earliest collab (reviewer, collabs, SC, or admin) review first, but in the right truncated column it has the latest non-collab review first.  Well, I think that the early standards for reviews were much lower, so it's not uncommon for the most prominent reviews by collabs to be relatively poor, so if it's a quality issue, it often doesn't hold up -- especially if it an album that was added back in the early days of the site.  Early collab reviews are quite commonly not that good, but when one becomes a collab, every review one has written (even as a noob who may have poor writing skills, has not listened to the album much and is not yet that knowledgeable / has not hones one's craft) gets that special treatment.

I could find many examples of collab reviews that show limited understanding while non-caollabs (who may eventually become collabs themselves and then their reviews will get better treatment) show greater understanding about the album/ band/ the scene it belongs to....

Guess the ads get even more special treatment, however, so we're all at least second best to those (I use adblock).

The other thing regarding both placement and weighed ratings -- weighted ratings being a concern of mine -- is that there is no shared truth when it comes to an album's worth or even the same methodology for rating which lessens the treatment for me.  One collab pans an album and gives it a one while another praises it and gives it a five.  It's the same with non-collabs, even though, of course, it's more likely to find abuse with non-collab reviews (though there are many reliable non-collab reviewers who may be asked to become collabs at some time).  In the realm of musical opinion, or at least what I should look into, I put my trust in those that I know have similar tastes to mine (be they official reviewer or not -- I couldn't care less what someone's title is when it comes to such matters).


Edited by Logan - November 06 2009 at 14:05

stonebeard wrote: If you are not a Collaborator, there is no reason in the current system to put effort into a review of an album if not for your own satisfaction. Your opinion otherwise is nearly worthless.

Not true at all, I'll give you three
1.  because its fun
2.  to become a collaborator
3.  If you review albums that arent well known, then people will read your review

jampa17 wrote: mystic fred wrote: I am a little perturbed by having to scroll right down past all the adverts, ebay and amazon etc., to actuallly get to the reviews...       Totally agree... and yes, we only write reviews for our own pleasure, because nobody will reach for the reviews on the side, and keep skipping the pages back to go and see another review... so I'm with those who want a change on the format... about true love in the other hand... it exists, surely, for all of us... but is difficult to recognize it and we're scared...!!!